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Why are used Motorcaravans so costly ?



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old July 17th 03, 10:13 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
jambo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Why are used Motorcaravans so costly ?

Hi All,

As I have been thinking of buying a used motorhome, it strikes me that these
things tend to apppreciate in contrast to the vans they are based on. An
example:

An R reg (30Kmiles) VW T4 2.5L diesel Van costs 5000 (14000 new)
An R reg (30K) VW T4 motorhome costs 17000(24000 new)

Is someone trying to tell me the so called conversion is none-depreciating
accessory ?

Whats the actual cost of a new conversion, better than sleeping in old bed.

Anyway into this hobby without spending whole earth.

Anyone shear experience of the Mazda motorhomes ?

Cheers


  #2 (permalink)  
Old July 17th 03, 10:40 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
CampinGazz
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Posts: 339
Default Why are used Motorcaravans so costly ?


"jambo" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

As I have been thinking of buying a used motorhome, it strikes me that

these
things tend to apppreciate in contrast to the vans they are based on. An
example:

An R reg (30Kmiles) VW T4 2.5L diesel Van costs 5000 (14000 new)
An R reg (30K) VW T4 motorhome costs 17000(24000 new)

Is someone trying to tell me the so called conversion is none-depreciating
accessory ?


It seems to be, most of the stuff put in during the conversion dosent wear
out really i'd guess, and it cost so much in the first place (that nice
thetford toilet.. costs 250, hot water on demand.. another 250.. prolly a
lot more nowadays, keep the beers cold, that nice 3 way fridge, small as it
may be it runs on 3 power sources.. one of em gas and does it silently, cost
new anything from 250 to well over a grand!!)
everything for the leisure industry seems over priced, but people pay the
prices, so they keep on producing the stuff.

I guess the vans hold their value so well because they do very little
mileage compared to what a panel van would do, (i bet that van had well over
100k on the clock, the motorhome will prolly have 20 maybe 30k on it) and
you can do so much more in a motorhome, depending on your tastes/money in
your pocket/needs/desires they can be a second home, and have all the
systems in place to function as one.


Whats the actual cost of a new conversion, better than sleeping in old

bed.

Depends on the type of conversion, i'm getting a coachbuilt body put on the
back of my iveco turbodaily van in december.. just the body, with door,
double glazed windows (they can cost upto a grand for the really big ones!)
interior panneling, wiring etc in the walls etc, i build and fit the
interior)
finished van will be almost 7 meters long, 2.10 wide, and have an interior
standing space of 2 meters, and that costs 7,000 plus vat, (base vehicle
cost me 3,000 for a 1998 extra long wheelbase iveco daily, 2.8 turbo diesel
engine) and i already have the interior gadgets (toilet, cooker, TV, heaters
etc, that little lot comes to a good 3 grand in parts prices alone)

Someone had their van fully turned into a coachbuilt, i.e. body built on
their old van, and interior fully fitted out, came to 17 grand, so it's not
that cheap a proposition to have one made for you.. tho you do get a fully
custom vehicle, you want a table to put a coffe cup on when laying in bed,
you have one, (fit one to a factory conversion and you knock a grand off
it's re-sale value!)

Of course, a panel van conversion should be much cheaper, prolly 6 to 10
grand for a good one, but it is labour your paying for at the end of the
day, and the way round that.. self build.

Not everyones cup of tea, to do one decently you need money.. ok not
anywhere near as much as to get it converted for you, but a 2 grand
conversion will always look like a 2 grand conversion,
you also need something most people don't have.. time, many people
underestimate the time needed, the coachbuilders will take upto 3 weeks to
build the body for my van.. that'll be a team of them doing it, and that's 3
solid weeks of work, and they do it all year long, they take another couple
of weeks to fit it out,

Home builders generaly take around 3 months to do a basic conversion, some
have been building for 2 years and still havent got a finished van.. they're
forced to do the odd hour in the warmer months at weekends when it's not
raining, the rest of the time they work.

Anyway into this hobby without spending whole earth.


If your good at DIY, safety minded, competent, not afraid to ask and learn
new things, then self build is the cheapest way, then buying a ropey van and
re-conditioning it, some people like the building part.. i love it and never
stopped adding to my last van, but for most they just want to use the
thing.. even if it turns out to be no more than a few weekends away a year.

if you fancy the self build route, be sure to check out the self build
motorhome club
www.sbmcc.co.uk

Otherwise, buying privately is the way to go, just read up and find out what
can go wrong with them first, as you've found out already, they are
expensive vehicles, so buying a lemon is even more of a problem than with a
car.
Dealers give peace of mind (most do, some don't want to know once you've
bought it and have a fault) but they have to make a living too, so the van
they buy off someone for 15 grand, sells on the forcort for 20, and in most
cases it gets a hoover, polish, and systems check (which is done before they
buy it off the last owner, and knock money off for any faults they find)..
which is only natural, it's their livelyhood.


  #3 (permalink)  
Old July 18th 03, 08:54 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Andy R
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 71
Default Why are used Motorcaravans so costly ?


"jambo" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

As I have been thinking of buying a used motorhome, it strikes me that

these
things tend to apppreciate in contrast to the vans they are based on. An
example:

An R reg (30Kmiles) VW T4 2.5L diesel Van costs 5000 (14000 new)
An R reg (30K) VW T4 motorhome costs 17000(24000 new)

Is someone trying to tell me the so called conversion is none-depreciating
accessory ?

Whats the actual cost of a new conversion, better than sleeping in old

bed.

Anyway into this hobby without spending whole earth.


Consider buying in Germany, search www.mobile.de and you will find some
decent looking vehicles for 10 - 12K

Rgds

Andy R


  #4 (permalink)  
Old July 18th 03, 01:03 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
David Miller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default Why are used Motorcaravans so costly ?

"jambo" wrote
As I have been thinking of buying a used motorhome, it strikes me that these
things tend to apppreciate in contrast to the vans they are based on.


Hi Jambo

Two things are different:

(1) At the same age, a motor home will have lower mileage and better
condition. The largish commercial vans, on which Motorhomes are
based, are typically thrashed to death over several hundred thousand
miles in a few years, compared with an average annual mileage of
3-4,000 for motorhomes.

(2) (And much more importantly) The price of anything is what people
will pay. There IS a market for 10 year-old motorhomes at 17 grand (I
know, I bought one!), so that keeps prices buoyant. Lots of people
want one, but can't afford new, so second hand prices are high.

There is no keen demand, however, for old and usually tatty vans. The
main users of commercial vehicles are businesses, and it doesn't make
sense for (most) businesses to try and rely on troublesome, clapped
out vehicles.

Since van prices are low, if you CAN find the rare low-mileage
well-kept van, you'll get it at good value! (And then do all the
stuff Gazz mentions)

Dave
  #5 (permalink)  
Old July 18th 03, 05:00 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Les Rose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 45
Default Why are used Motorcaravans so costly ?


"David Miller" wrote in message
om...
"jambo" wrote
As I have been thinking of buying a used motorhome, it strikes me that

these
things tend to apppreciate in contrast to the vans they are based on.


Hi Jambo

Two things are different:

(1) At the same age, a motor home will have lower mileage and better
condition. The largish commercial vans, on which Motorhomes are
based, are typically thrashed to death over several hundred thousand
miles in a few years, compared with an average annual mileage of
3-4,000 for motorhomes.

(2) (And much more importantly) The price of anything is what people
will pay. There IS a market for 10 year-old motorhomes at 17 grand (I
know, I bought one!), so that keeps prices buoyant. Lots of people
want one, but can't afford new, so second hand prices are high.

There is no keen demand, however, for old and usually tatty vans. The
main users of commercial vehicles are businesses, and it doesn't make
sense for (most) businesses to try and rely on troublesome, clapped
out vehicles.

Since van prices are low, if you CAN find the rare low-mileage
well-kept van, you'll get it at good value! (And then do all the
stuff Gazz mentions)

Dave


Yes, the economics of used motorhomes make sense. What I baulk at a bit is
the very high cost of new ones when they are based on such mundane and
unrefined mechanicals. The noise and ride are terrible compared with a small
car let alone a big one. A few years back we bought a new 5-berth caravan
for 9k, with all mod cons. Why does putting that lot on a van chassis push
the price up to 45k? A Fiat Ducato doesn't cost 36k. Someone is doing very
well out of this.


  #6 (permalink)  
Old July 18th 03, 07:15 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
QrizB
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Posts: 95
Default Why are used Motorcaravans so costly ?

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:13:02 +0000 (UTC), "jambo"
wrote:

Hi All,

As I have been thinking of buying a used motorhome, it strikes me that these
things tend to apppreciate in contrast to the vans they are based on.


There's an (admittedly ancient) camper on eBay.co.uk at present, with
13 hours to go and which hasn't received a single bid at the opening
price of 150. It's tax-exempt, too.

--
QrizB

I sound like I know what I'm talking about, but don't
be fooled.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old July 19th 03, 09:56 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Ian Maynard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Why are used Motorcaravans so costly ?

And, Jambo, in response to the final line of your original posting,
("Any feedback on Mazdas"), that is what makes the Mazda campervans
such a tremendous bargain. These are top quality hi-spec Japanese
vehicles with low mileage. Base vehicles are as low as 6,000, and
newly converted 7 year old Mazdas from 12,000. In other words, 5k
cheaper than comparable VWs.

Ian
  #8 (permalink)  
Old July 20th 03, 06:49 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Les Rose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 45
Default Why are used Motorcaravans so costly ?


"HH" wrote in message
...

The construction of a motorhome body is somewhat different to that of a
caravan, chasses need modifying, and the development and testing of the

two
married together is costly - to the same standard as other road vehicles:
seats and belts don't just happen. If the contents of a caravan come

adrift
in a road traffic accident, it harms nobody, whereas a feeble cupboard

catch
in a motorhome can result in death if the contents of the cupboard start
flying round. Motorhome manufacturers spend huge amounts of money on
testing/refining road-going vehicles which caravan manufacturers don't

even
have to think of.

Oh yes . . everyone makes a little bit, more or less, on the way . .
it's called profit and is the result of capitalism! It gives us the

freedom
to buy/pay what we choose and travel where we want. Not many motorhomes in
the former USSR.

Malcolm
------------------------------------------------------------------



"Les Rose" wrote in message
...

Yes, the economics of used motorhomes make sense. What I baulk at a bit

is
the very high cost of new ones when they are based on such mundane and
unrefined mechanicals. The noise and ride are terrible compared with a

small
car let alone a big one. A few years back we bought a new 5-berth

caravan
for 9k, with all mod cons. Why does putting that lot on a van chassis

push
the price up to 45k? A Fiat Ducato doesn't cost 36k. Someone is doing

very
well out of this.




I appreciate the argument, but it doesn't account for all the cost. I welded
together a frame for 3-point seat belt mounting and I'd be pleased to be
paid a few grand for doing it. The cupboard catches on our Hymer are very
good but no better than those on the caravan. I think perhaps the question
is, why are motorhomes overpriced in the UK? But we've all heard that
before.


  #9 (permalink)  
Old July 20th 03, 07:47 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 870
Default Why are used Motorcaravans so costly ?

"Les Rose" wrote in
:

I appreciate the argument, but it doesn't account for all the cost. I
welded together a frame for 3-point seat belt mounting and I'd be
pleased to be paid a few grand for doing it. The cupboard catches on
our Hymer are very good but no better than those on the caravan. I
think perhaps the question is, why are motorhomes overpriced in the
UK? But we've all heard that before.


Going back to your original point, I did some very quick (and extremely
unscientific) research. I couldn't access the Fiat site, so used Peugeot
instead (the Fiat Ducato and Peugeot Boxer are the same vehicle):

Peugeot Boxer 2.8 HDi Hi-Roof LWB panel van: 23,000
VAT on base vehicle 4,000
Avondale Rialto caravan 13,000
-------
Total 40,000

I assume that the price of the caravan already includes VAT, and I've
rounded the figures above down to the nearest 1,000.

The total here of 40,000 makes little allowance for the manufacturer's
profit or for things that motorhomes have that caravans don't (like seat
belts and built-in fresh and grey water tanks). It wouldn't take too much
to get the price to 45,000.

--
Geoff Lane
Cornwall, UK
  #10 (permalink)  
Old July 21st 03, 11:19 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Les Rose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 45
Default Why are used Motorcaravans so costly ?


"Geoff Lane" wrote in message
...
"Les Rose" wrote in
:

I appreciate the argument, but it doesn't account for all the cost. I
welded together a frame for 3-point seat belt mounting and I'd be
pleased to be paid a few grand for doing it. The cupboard catches on
our Hymer are very good but no better than those on the caravan. I
think perhaps the question is, why are motorhomes overpriced in the
UK? But we've all heard that before.


Going back to your original point, I did some very quick (and extremely
unscientific) research. I couldn't access the Fiat site, so used Peugeot
instead (the Fiat Ducato and Peugeot Boxer are the same vehicle):

Peugeot Boxer 2.8 HDi Hi-Roof LWB panel van: 23,000
VAT on base vehicle 4,000
Avondale Rialto caravan 13,000
-------
Total 40,000

I assume that the price of the caravan already includes VAT, and I've
rounded the figures above down to the nearest 1,000.

The total here of 40,000 makes little allowance for the manufacturer's
profit or for things that motorhomes have that caravans don't (like seat
belts and built-in fresh and grey water tanks). It wouldn't take too much
to get the price to 45,000.

--
Geoff Lane
Cornwall, UK

OK OK, point well made! Perhaps the point is, why are panels vans overpriced
in the UK? Seems a lot to me for such a basic and unrefined vehicle.


 



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