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UK Caravanning (uk.rec.caravanning) A forum for the discussion of caravanning undertaken by residents of the United Kingdom, whether in the UK or abroad. It encourages the interchange of views on the merits of models of caravan, makes of tow car, accessories, caravan sites, caravan clubs, and other related topics. The term caravan is to include trailer vans, motor caravans and trailer tents.

Wide body caravan question



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old February 1st 07, 07:32 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Lex M
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 123
Default Wide body caravan question

Dutch inhabitants are allowed to tow wide caravans (8 ft)
with a towcar 3500 kg. GB inhabitants are not allowed to do so.
Question:
is a Dutchman allowed to drive on British roads with his caravan with a width
of 8 ft and his towcar 3500 (both registered in the Netherlands)?

--
Regards, Lex
http://biod.net
http://www.caravanhandboek.nl

Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old February 1st 07, 09:10 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 870
Default Wide body caravan question

Lex M wrote in
:

Dutch inhabitants are allowed to tow wide caravans (8 ft)
with a towcar 3500 kg. GB inhabitants are not allowed to do so.
Question:
is a Dutchman allowed to drive on British roads with his caravan with
a width of 8 ft and his towcar 3500 (both registered in the
Netherlands)?


AFAICT, the answer is "yes"! ... for the same reason as our motorhomers are
allowed to tow toads in Spain even though the spanish are not.

There is an agreement between EU members states that any vehicle that meets
the construction and use regulations of the country in which it is
registered needs no modification to be used in any other member state. So,
the outfit you describe meets the Dutch rules and thus can be used legally
anywhere in the EU.

That said, IANAL and this is only as I understand it to be.

--
Geoff
  #3 (permalink)  
Old February 1st 07, 10:13 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
[email protected] home
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 589
Default Wide body caravan question


"Lex M" wrote in message
...
Dutch inhabitants are allowed to tow wide caravans (8 ft)
with a towcar 3500 kg. GB inhabitants are not allowed to do so.
Question:
is a Dutchman allowed to drive on British roads with his caravan with a
width
of 8 ft and his towcar 3500 (both registered in the Netherlands)?

--
Regards, Lex



Yes he is.

Cheers

D


  #4 (permalink)  
Old February 2nd 07, 12:26 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Bert W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default Wide body caravan question

[email protected] home wrote:
"Lex M" wrote in message
...
Dutch inhabitants are allowed to tow wide caravans (8 ft)
with a towcar 3500 kg. GB inhabitants are not allowed to do so.
Question:
is a Dutchman allowed to drive on British roads with his caravan
with a width
of 8 ft and his towcar 3500 (both registered in the Netherlands)?


Yes he is.


No he isn't... I saw a few month ago a link in this ng to a fact sheet of
the Dpt. for Transport. Anyone familiar with the source of that document?

--
Regards, Bert W
www.whattowcar.com

  #5 (permalink)  
Old February 2nd 07, 11:53 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
[email protected] home
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 589
Default Wide body caravan question


"Bert W" wrote in message
...
[email protected] home wrote:
"Lex M" wrote in message
...
Dutch inhabitants are allowed to tow wide caravans (8 ft)
with a towcar 3500 kg. GB inhabitants are not allowed to do so.
Question:
is a Dutchman allowed to drive on British roads with his caravan
with a width
of 8 ft and his towcar 3500 (both registered in the Netherlands)?


Yes he is.


No he isn't... I saw a few month ago a link in this ng to a fact sheet of
the Dpt. for Transport. Anyone familiar with the source of that document?

--
Regards, Bert W
www.whattowcar.com


My understanding is that it is a UK Construction and Use regulation that
restricts the size to 2.3M. As said Dutchman is not subject to UK
Construction and Use regs, and EU Cunstruction and Use regs are not
harmonised then he is doing nothing wrong.

No doubt this bloody country has got two sets of laws contradicting
themselves and it will take a big expensive court case to define the law.

Cheers

D


  #6 (permalink)  
Old February 3rd 07, 09:46 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 870
Default Wide body caravan question

"Bert W" wrote in news:45c28495$0$328
:

Yes he is.


No he isn't... I saw a few month ago a link in this ng to a fact sheet of
the Dpt. for Transport. Anyone familiar with the source of that document?


Search the DfT web-site for "Requirements for Trailers" - or get the same
info from http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/law/dimensions.htm - the NTTA's page on
the subject.

However, as I wrote upthread, there is an agreement between EU member
states that permits anyone to use a vehicle or combination on the roads of
any member state provided that vehicle meets the construction and use regs
of the country in which it is registered. Thus, the Dutch and Germans are
allowed their wide-bodied caravans on our roads even though we are not. In
the same way, we are allowed to tow small cars on towing frames behind
motorcaravans in all the EU even though that's otherwise unlawful in some
member states.

HTH,

--
Geoff
  #7 (permalink)  
Old February 3rd 07, 10:48 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Bert W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default Wide body caravan question

Geoff Lane wrote:
"Bert W" wrote in
news:45c28495$0$328 :

Yes he is.


No he isn't... I saw a few month ago a link in this ng to a fact
sheet of the Dpt. for Transport. Anyone familiar with the source of
that document?


Search the DfT web-site for "Requirements for Trailers" - or get the
same info from http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/law/dimensions.htm - the
NTTA's page on the subject.

However, as I wrote upthread, there is an agreement between EU member
states that permits anyone to use a vehicle or combination on the
roads of any member state provided that vehicle meets the
construction and use regs of the country in which it is registered.
Thus, the Dutch and Germans are allowed their wide-bodied caravans on
our roads even though we are not. In the same way, we are allowed to
tow small cars on towing frames behind motorcaravans in all the EU
even though that's otherwise unlawful in some member states.


Can't find the fact sheet I'm pointing at - I have it here (pm me if u want
it at infoATwhattowcar.com), but don't know the origin of the document (well
obviously it is the DfT), it was linked in this ng however. I paste
hereunder the contents regarding the dimensions that also apply for foreign
visitors!

Dimensions

If the towing vehicle has a permissible gross weight in excess of 3.5 tonnes
the maximum width and length of the trailer are 2.55 metres and 12 metres
respectively. If however the gross weight of the towing vehicle is 3.5
tonnes or less, then the maximum permissible width and length are 2.3 metres
and 7 metres respectively. In both cases, the overall length of the towing
vehicle and trailer must not exceed either 18m or 18.75m depending on the
type of towing vehicle.

The definition in C&U of the overall length of a trailer makes it clear that
the coupling device and draw-bar are not included in the length dimension.
In the case of a caravan, where a protective box is mounted on to the front
which is supported on the draw-bar for the purpose of storage gas tanks, for
example, this box is included in the overall length.

These requirements also apply to visiting vehicles. Under Regulation 4(4)
Item 2 of C&U, we permit a vehicle to be brought into Great Britian by a
person resident abroad, provided that the vehicle complies in every respect
with the requirements relating to motor vehicles or trailers contained in:

(a) article 21 and paragraph (1) of article 22 of the Convention
on Road Traffic concluded at Geneva on September 19, 1949 and Part I, Part
II (so far as it relates to direction indicators and stoplamps) and Part III
of Annex 6 to that Convention; or
(b) paragraphs I, III and VIII of article 3 of the International
Convention relative to Motor Traffic concluded at Paris on April 24, 1926.

Therefore we provide visiting vehicles an exemption from the construction,
equipment and maintenance of vehicle requirements specified in Part II of
C&U but not from the requirements for Regulations 7, 8, and 10, which relate
to length, width and height respectively.

There is significant harmonisation of regulation within the European Union
and freedom of movement across boarders. European Council Directive
96/53/EC, Annex I, states the maximum authorised dimensions for certain road
vehicles circulating within the Community. However Annex I relate to large
passenger carrying vehicles, large goods vehicles and trailers with a weight
of over 3500 kg. There are no specific requirements for light vehicles.

Article 3(2) permits Member States to restrict vehicles, not covered by
Annex I, put into circulation in their own territory to be in conformity
with their own national requirements.

The UK is permitted to refuse to admit vehicles into the UK if the
dimensions exceed limits fixed by the domestic legislation, Annex 1 (1).


--
Regards, Bert W
www.whattowcar.com

  #8 (permalink)  
Old February 4th 07, 10:59 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 870
Default Wide body caravan question

"Bert W" wrote in
:

Can't find the fact sheet I'm pointing at - I have it here (pm me if u
want it at infoATwhattowcar.com), but don't know the origin of the
document (well obviously it is the DfT), it was linked in this ng
however. I paste hereunder the contents regarding the dimensions that
also apply for foreign visitors!


I'll bow to your superior information (mine came from a member of the NTTA
and was corroborated by a VOSA inspector) with the proviso that your's is
out of date in at least one respect. A quick search of the 'net revealed a
1991 amendment that added regulation 7A to the list of exemptions. So, "...
but not from the requirements for Regulations 7, 8, and 10, which relate
to length, width and height respectively" is no longer entirely accurate.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1991/Uksi_19912710_en_1.htm

I suspect that a more-in-depth trawl would reveal more amendments, perhaps
even ones that permitted 2.5m caravans behind Dutch towcars (as my sources
suggested).

HTH,

--
Geoff
  #9 (permalink)  
Old February 4th 07, 01:17 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Bert W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default Wide body caravan question

Geoff Lane wrote:
"Bert W" wrote in
:

Can't find the fact sheet I'm pointing at - I have it here (pm me if
u want it at infoATwhattowcar.com), but don't know the origin of the
document (well obviously it is the DfT), it was linked in this ng
however. I paste hereunder the contents regarding the dimensions that
also apply for foreign visitors!


I'll bow to your superior information (mine came from a member of the
NTTA and was corroborated by a VOSA inspector) with the proviso that
your's is out of date in at least one respect. A quick search of the
'net revealed a 1991 amendment that added regulation 7A to the list
of exemptions. So, "... but not from the requirements for Regulations
7, 8, and 10, which relate to length, width and height respectively"
is no longer entirely accurate.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1991/Uksi_19912710_en_1.htm

I suspect that a more-in-depth trawl would reveal more amendments,
perhaps even ones that permitted 2.5m caravans behind Dutch towcars
(as my sources suggested).

HTH,


Dunno about that. I've got a van of 2,20 so I don't care. ;-)
Btw, the fact sheet dates October 2005!!!

--
Regards, Bert W
www.whattowcar.com
 



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