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UK Caravanning (uk.rec.caravanning) A forum for the discussion of caravanning undertaken by residents of the United Kingdom, whether in the UK or abroad. It encourages the interchange of views on the merits of models of caravan, makes of tow car, accessories, caravan sites, caravan clubs, and other related topics. The term caravan is to include trailer vans, motor caravans and trailer tents.

Noseweight/Payload puzzle



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old March 24th 07, 06:54 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Aiden
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Posts: 70
Default Noseweight/Payload puzzle

Have started planning our first trip to France.
Problem is : Car tow ball recommended weight - 75kg
Van recommended 7%- works out at 100kg

We have been trying and can only achieve 55-60kg noseweight.

Is 55-60kg seriously too light??

Please, any thoughts - we're pulling our hair!?

(We hear heavy is better than light - but heavier/lighter than
what??!!)

Sadly, van payload just on max (mover,gas,battery etc) - even with
most gear in the car.(aquaroll, wastemaster,awning etc.)

We don't want to move clothes, pots/pans and fridge contents from van
to car each time we move.(Or into front box come to that! ;-} )

Car Unladen weight c.1520kg
MTPLM c.1420kg (- yep we know - legal, but not 85% - that's why we
are being careful with our calculations.)
Gross train weight is still well within limits.

Sorry about length of post - just hope there is a solution out there.

Thanks
Ads
  #2 (permalink)  
Old March 24th 07, 07:03 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Nebulous
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Posts: 30
Default Noseweight/Payload puzzle


Aiden wrote in message ...
Have started planning our first trip to France.
Problem is : Car tow ball recommended weight - 75kg
Van recommended 7%- works out at 100kg

We have been trying and can only achieve 55-60kg noseweight.

Is 55-60kg seriously too light??

Please, any thoughts - we're pulling our hair!?

(We hear heavy is better than light - but heavier/lighter than
what??!!)

Sadly, van payload just on max (mover,gas,battery etc) - even with
most gear in the car.(aquaroll, wastemaster,awning etc.)

We don't want to move clothes, pots/pans and fridge contents from van
to car each time we move.(Or into front box come to that! ;-} )

Car Unladen weight c.1520kg
MTPLM c.1420kg (- yep we know - legal, but not 85% - that's why we
are being careful with our calculations.)
Gross train weight is still well within limits.


Hmmm,

I would be aiming to get as close to 75kg as possible. Caravans generally
tow better with a higher noseweight. We carry a lot of stuff in the caravan
and generally can move it further forward to adjust. Is there nothing else
behind the wheels you can move forward fairly readily?

Even the seat cushions will make a difference because you are not only
taking them away from one side of the pivot, but adding them to the other.

Neb


  #3 (permalink)  
Old March 24th 07, 07:11 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Roger Mills
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Posts: 418
Default Noseweight/Payload puzzle

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Aiden Aiden wrote:

Have started planning our first trip to France.
Problem is : Car tow ball recommended weight - 75kg
Van recommended 7%- works out at 100kg

We have been trying and can only achieve 55-60kg noseweight.

Is 55-60kg seriously too light??

Please, any thoughts - we're pulling our hair!?


60Kg is fine!

I presume you mean that the car's *maximum* hitch load is 75Kg (rather than
'recommended')? If so, it is *illegal* to exceed it. Many cars have a limit
of 70 or 75Kg - so if your caravan weighs more than 1000Kg, you cannot
legally achieve the recommended 7%.

You'll be around 4% - which is a bit low - but ok. A stabiliser would be a
good idea if you haven't already got one.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!


  #4 (permalink)  
Old March 24th 07, 08:12 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Dave Fawthrop
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Posts: 1,831
Default Noseweight/Payload puzzle

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:54:18 +0000, Aiden wrote:

|!Have started planning our first trip to France.
|!Problem is : Car tow ball recommended weight - 75kg
|!Van recommended 7%- works out at 100kg
|!
|!We have been trying and can only achieve 55-60kg noseweight.
|!
|!Is 55-60kg seriously too light??

No the 75 kg weight is a *maximum* anything below that is legal.
That said too low is a bad idea, too low and you can get an unstable
combination. A negative ball weight is a *very*, *very* bad idea.
I have never towed with anything like the maximum allowed by my car.

|!
|!Please, any thoughts - we're pulling our hair!?
|!
|!(We hear heavy is better than light - but heavier/lighter than
|!what??!!)
|!
|!Sadly, van payload just on max (mover,gas,battery etc) - even with
|!most gear in the car.(aquaroll, wastemaster,awning etc.)
|!
|!We don't want to move clothes, pots/pans and fridge contents from van
|!to car each time we move.(Or into front box come to that! ;-} )
|!
|!Car Unladen weight c.1520kg
|!MTPLM c.1420kg (- yep we know - legal, but not 85% - that's why we
|!are being careful with our calculations.)
|!Gross train weight is still well within limits.
|!
|!Sorry about length of post - just hope there is a solution out there.

Your caravan is too heavy, take it out for a weekend or two to get used to
towing it before you go on a long trip. Plan all trips without hills.
--
Dave Fawthrop sf hyphenologist.co.uk 165 *Free* SF ebooks.
165 Sci Fi books on CDROM, from Project Gutenberg
http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page Completely Free to any
address in the UK. Contact me on the *above* email address.

  #5 (permalink)  
Old March 24th 07, 11:27 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
bill lord
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Posts: 2,533
Default Noseweight/Payload puzzle

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:54:18 +0000, Aiden wrote:

Have started planning our first trip to France.
Problem is : Car tow ball recommended weight - 75kg
Van recommended 7%- works out at 100kg

We have been trying and can only achieve 55-60kg noseweight.

Is 55-60kg seriously too light??

Please, any thoughts - we're pulling our hair!?

(We hear heavy is better than light - but heavier/lighter than
what??!!)



What you have is fine, but 65kg would be better. What you must not
have is a noseweight greater than 75kg this would be illegal.
Something as simple as a bag of shopping placed on the floor at the
front of the van would do the trick.


Bill Lord
I've taken a vow of poverty To annoy me send money

e-mail messages to bill dot lord at uku dot co dot uk
( Get rid of the spaces and use symbols for the hyphen at and dots )
  #6 (permalink)  
Old March 25th 07, 08:39 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Roger Mills
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Posts: 418
Default Noseweight/Payload puzzle

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
bill lord wrote:


What you have is fine, but 65kg would be better. What you must not
have is a noseweight greater than 75kg this would be illegal.
Something as simple as a bag of shopping placed on the floor at the
front of the van would do the trick.


As long as that doesn't take the van over its max permitted weight!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!


  #7 (permalink)  
Old March 25th 07, 09:00 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Aiden
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 70
Default Noseweight/Payload puzzle

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 09:39:24 +0100, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
bill lord wrote:


What you have is fine, but 65kg would be better. What you must not
have is a noseweight greater than 75kg this would be illegal.
Something as simple as a bag of shopping placed on the floor at the
front of the van would do the trick.


As long as that doesn't take the van over its max permitted weight!


This is the problem - we have very little available weight left.

(She's already compalining that she thinks one set of underwear won't
be enough for a month away! Wimin! :-} )

A possibilty, we're thinking, might be to take the spare from
underneath, behind axle, and see if it fits in the front box. Don't
expect so, will find out later.

Regarding payload figure - don't suppose MIRO includes the weight of
the battery (28kg) by any chance? This would help our plight
enormously - increase payload by same amount, then anything would be
possible.

Thanks all for the comments.
  #8 (permalink)  
Old March 25th 07, 09:21 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Aiden
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 70
Default Noseweight/Payload puzzle

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:03:09 -0000, "Nebulous"
wrote:

snip

Hmmm,

I would be aiming to get as close to 75kg as possible. Caravans generally
tow better with a higher noseweight. We carry a lot of stuff in the caravan
and generally can move it further forward to adjust. Is there nothing else
behind the wheels you can move forward fairly readily?

Even the seat cushions will make a difference because you are not only
taking them away from one side of the pivot, but adding them to the other.

Neb


Good thought but it's a rear fixed bed - nothing back there to move
forward - 'cept the mattress - can't see us lifting that to the front
each trip - mind you, the way we feel at the moment it might be the
only solution.Thanks.

Plan now is to load it up with as much as allowed, check to see if the
nose weight has improved at all (trying out one or two changes), take
it for a test drive and then to the weighbridge tomorrow. Who knows we
might have done our calculations wrong!
  #9 (permalink)  
Old March 25th 07, 09:30 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Aiden
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 70
Default Noseweight/Payload puzzle

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:11:10 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

snip

60Kg is fine!

I presume you mean that the car's *maximum* hitch load is 75Kg (rather than
'recommended')? If so, it is *illegal* to exceed it. Many cars have a limit
of 70 or 75Kg - so if your caravan weighs more than 1000Kg, you cannot
legally achieve the recommended 7%.

You'll be around 4% - which is a bit low - but ok. A stabiliser would be a
good idea if you haven't already got one.


Yep - 75kg is 'max' - good to know that we mustn't exceed that
whatever. So, really, "lighter" from the legal point of view IS better
than heavier - and therefore presumably, safer.

Is a "snake" therefore more likely if the nose is heavy?

Yep - have got a stabiliser, it came with the van - but I certainly
don't rely on it when towing - just nice to know it's there.
  #10 (permalink)  
Old March 25th 07, 10:02 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Roger Mills
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 418
Default Noseweight/Payload puzzle

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Aiden Aiden wrote:


Regarding payload figure - don't suppose MIRO includes the weight of
the battery (28kg) by any chance? This would help our plight
enormously - increase payload by same amount, then anything would be
possible.

You can't rely on the MIRO - it's likely to be a nominal figure for that
model the actual weight will vary from van to van - and is often *higher*
than the plate says!

The only way to be sure is to take it to a weighbridge in your proposed 'on
the road' laden condition, to see how much margin (if any) you've got. It
appears from your next post that you're going to do that, anyway.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!


 



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