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UK Caravanning (uk.rec.caravanning) A forum for the discussion of caravanning undertaken by residents of the United Kingdom, whether in the UK or abroad. It encourages the interchange of views on the merits of models of caravan, makes of tow car, accessories, caravan sites, caravan clubs, and other related topics. The term caravan is to include trailer vans, motor caravans and trailer tents.

Motor Movers - Experiment



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old October 9th 03, 02:48 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
klyne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 214
Default Motor Movers - Experiment

I have on a couple of occasions told the group about my difficulties in
having enough power in my van battery to power the Reich Move Control after
a reasonable length journey. We have just returned from 4 days in Dorset and
as an experiment we did not switch the fridge over to 12 volt power when
towing. As we keep the van in our back garden I can put the fridge on over
night which I did be fore we left. The temperature was unlikely to be a
problem. Both at the site when we arrived and when we got home there was
power a plenty in the battery so we could use the mover. This obviously
backs up what a lot of people said. I do not intend to do anything as we may
well change the van next year. If it is still a problem with a new van/car
combination I think the only answer will be to run a separate feed to the
battery for charging. Thanks everyone for their help.

--
David - Milton Keynes
www.klyne.btinternet.co.uk
Details of our Caravan Travels in the UK and Europe with help and advice and
site reports


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old October 9th 03, 04:01 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Roger Mills
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default Motor Movers - Experiment


"klyne" wrote in message
...
I have on a couple of occasions told the group about my difficulties in
having enough power in my van battery to power the Reich Move Control

after
a reasonable length journey. We have just returned from 4 days in Dorset

and
as an experiment we did not switch the fridge over to 12 volt power when
towing. As we keep the van in our back garden I can put the fridge on over
night which I did be fore we left. The temperature was unlikely to be a
problem. Both at the site when we arrived and when we got home there was
power a plenty in the battery so we could use the mover. This obviously
backs up what a lot of people said. I do not intend to do anything as we

may
well change the van next year. If it is still a problem with a new van/car
combination I think the only answer will be to run a separate feed to the
battery for charging. Thanks everyone for their help.

--
David - Milton Keynes
www.klyne.btinternet.co.uk
Details of our Caravan Travels in the UK and Europe with help and advice

and
site reports



Sounds as if you need a diode somewhere in the circuit to make it impossible
for the fridge to take power from the van battery.

Roger


  #3 (permalink)  
Old October 9th 03, 04:32 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
DaveK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 151
Default Motor Movers - Experiment


Sounds as if you need a diode somewhere in the circuit to make it

impossible
for the fridge to take power from the van battery.

The relay should do that,-maybe it's stuck. (or incorrectly wired).
DaveK.


  #4 (permalink)  
Old October 9th 03, 11:26 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Peter Milnes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 191
Default Motor Movers - Experiment

Just to reiterate an electrical usage point, you should always have a traction
or Semi-traction battery fitted to the caravan with this sort of mover. It
should only be attached to the leisure battery through a diode so that it can be
charged when the caravan is being towed and should be the only battery feed to
the mover. Leisure batteries are not designed to take the considerable current
used by the motors when working. The plates inside each cell will buckle and
could well short out the battery internally rendering it useless. Think this
way: Leisure battery - low current usage for long periods; Traction battery -
high current usage for shorter periods (with high recovery rate).

For charging purposes a 20 Amp diode should be able to take the charging current
and give good isolation. Ensure that the reverse voltage rating is more than
about 25 Volts.

Cheers, Peter.

"DaveK" wrote in message
...
:
: Sounds as if you need a diode somewhere in the circuit to make it
: impossible
: for the fridge to take power from the van battery.
:
: The relay should do that,-maybe it's stuck. (or incorrectly wired).
: DaveK.
:
:

  #5 (permalink)  
Old October 10th 03, 08:59 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Roger Mills
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default Motor Movers - Experiment


"Peter Milnes" wrote in message
...
Think this
way: Leisure battery - low current usage for long periods; Traction

battery -
high current usage for shorter periods (with high recovery rate).

For charging purposes a 20 Amp diode should be able to take the charging

current
and give good isolation. Ensure that the reverse voltage rating is more

than
about 25 Volts.

Cheers, Peter.

Are you saying that a caravan with a built-in mover needs *two* separate
batteries? If so, where do you put the second one - since most caravans only
have one battery compartment?

Roger


  #6 (permalink)  
Old October 10th 03, 01:16 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default Motor Movers - Experiment


"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...

"Peter Milnes" wrote in message
...
Think this
way: Leisure battery - low current usage for long periods; Traction

battery -
high current usage for shorter periods (with high recovery rate).

For charging purposes a 20 Amp diode should be able to take the charging

current
and give good isolation. Ensure that the reverse voltage rating is more

than
about 25 Volts.

Cheers, Peter.

Are you saying that a caravan with a built-in mover needs *two* separate
batteries? If so, where do you put the second one - since most caravans

only
have one battery compartment?

Roger

Does anyone know how much current is flowing when these mover are being

used,
is is given in the hand book?
Mike Sansom


  #7 (permalink)  
Old October 10th 03, 10:08 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
bowtiejim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 138
Default Motor Movers - Experiment


"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...

"Peter Milnes" wrote in message
...
Think this
way: Leisure battery - low current usage for long periods; Traction

battery -
high current usage for shorter periods (with high recovery rate).

For charging purposes a 20 Amp diode should be able to take the

charging
current
and give good isolation. Ensure that the reverse voltage rating is

more
than
about 25 Volts.

Cheers, Peter.

Are you saying that a caravan with a built-in mover needs *two* separate
batteries? If so, where do you put the second one - since most caravans

only
have one battery compartment?

Roger

Does anyone know how much current is flowing when these mover are being

used,
is is given in the hand book?
Mike Sansom

Anyone know what current the mover draws on full load?


  #8 (permalink)  
Old October 10th 03, 11:36 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Doc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default Motor Movers - Experiment


"bowtiejim" and others pondered on movers:

Anyone know what current the mover draws on full load?

---***---
The max current which each motor can draw is ~15A, I believe. Higher
current draw is automatically cut off. But I'm not sure if this is reduced
when both motors operate together, so you don't ever get 30A!

I've not measured it; just going on the book!

I do in fact use 2 x 80Ahr batteries in parallel, charged from a Sterling
Power 4-stage S-M charger. [No diodes added].
In terms of charging protocols run by such chargers, there is no distinction
between a 'leisure' & a 'traction' battery. The time of use and current
drawn is quite different from a 'starting' battery and should be handled OK
by the batteries used in caravans.
The problem of using a blocking diode is that it causes a voltage drop of
~0.7V (or at best 0.3V) and so the battery won't be charged to the correct
potentials set by the charging protocols. This in itself is likely to
shorten battery life.

Cheers, Doc.




  #9 (permalink)  
Old October 11th 03, 12:18 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Peter Milnes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 191
Default Motor Movers - Experiment

Roger, yes you do need two batteries, one Liesure and one Traction (or
Semi-traction). Unfortunately that is up to you to find storage space for the
extra battery. I would suggest somewhere very close to the axle for best
balance. My stairlift uses two small sealed Lead Acid batteries together about
half the size of a 45 amp/hr battery. They are of Semi-traction design and I
feel that, for the amount of time they would be used during manoeuvring, two (in
parallel) per motor would probably suffice. They are small enough to be easy to
fit in any convenient space inside the caravan and are connected using "Lucar"
type connectors (as used in all motor cars and most caravans). They are capable
of running one DC motor up and down the lift rack (about 14 steps high at 45
degrees) for about 15 times before needing to go on charge. They cost me 15 per
pair, so for 30 and a little ingenuity, you can have a safe, efficient traction
supply for your mover.

Cheers, Peter.

"bowtiejim" wrote in message
...
:
: "Mike" wrote in message
: ...
:
: "Roger Mills" wrote in message
: ...
:
: "Peter Milnes" wrote in message
: ...
: Think this
: way: Leisure battery - low current usage for long periods; Traction
: battery -
: high current usage for shorter periods (with high recovery rate).
:
: For charging purposes a 20 Amp diode should be able to take the
: charging
: current
: and give good isolation. Ensure that the reverse voltage rating is
: more
: than
: about 25 Volts.
:
: Cheers, Peter.
:
: Are you saying that a caravan with a built-in mover needs *two* separate
: batteries? If so, where do you put the second one - since most caravans
: only
: have one battery compartment?
:
: Roger
:
: Does anyone know how much current is flowing when these mover are being
: used,
: is is given in the hand book?
: Mike Sansom
:
: Anyone know what current the mover draws on full load?
:
:

  #10 (permalink)  
Old October 11th 03, 12:20 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Peter Milnes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 191
Default Motor Movers - Experiment

When using high current rated diodes the volts drop across them is much reduced
in operation to a figure nearer 0.1Volts. I tend to use at least 70Amps capable
diodes to get this much reduced working volts drop.

Cheers, Peter.

"Doc" wrote in message
...
:
: "bowtiejim" and others pondered on movers:
:
: Anyone know what current the mover draws on full load?
: ---***---
: The max current which each motor can draw is ~15A, I believe. Higher
: current draw is automatically cut off. But I'm not sure if this is reduced
: when both motors operate together, so you don't ever get 30A!
:
: I've not measured it; just going on the book!
:
: I do in fact use 2 x 80Ahr batteries in parallel, charged from a Sterling
: Power 4-stage S-M charger. [No diodes added].
: In terms of charging protocols run by such chargers, there is no distinction
: between a 'leisure' & a 'traction' battery. The time of use and current
: drawn is quite different from a 'starting' battery and should be handled OK
: by the batteries used in caravans.
: The problem of using a blocking diode is that it causes a voltage drop of
: ~0.7V (or at best 0.3V) and so the battery won't be charged to the correct
: potentials set by the charging protocols. This in itself is likely to
: shorten battery life.
:
: Cheers, Doc.
:
:
:
:

 



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