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Under the microscope .. (gas experts)



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old October 19th 03, 05:07 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
T i m
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 219
Default Under the microscope .. (gas experts)

Hi Folks,

Before I took the (old) 3 way 'WestWinter" portable fridge into the
garden and filled it with explosives (sold under the guise of "Fun
fireworks for all the family" g) I thought I'd give it a last look.

Symptoms, works ok under 12V or 240V but not (at all) under Gas.

I had been running it on the 37mbar reg but then found a loose paper
'plate' inside that suggested it was designed for 50mbar. Bought a 50
mbar reg, still no worky?

It was then suggested that there should be a 'baffle' hanging in the
flue (normally suspended in the flue by a wire hooked over the top
like on the Camping Gaz one I have) and I tried to fit one today but
couldn't .. as there was one in the already! It seems to be fitted
'internally' with a wire through the flue. Ho hum.

So, I took the feed pipe to the burner out and withdrew the 'jet'.
This seems to be a little nipple (sri ladies g) shaped tin thing
with a tiny hole through it that under the microscope looks partially
blocked by a piece of bent metal? When I say 'blocked' it's like if
you open the lid of a can of beans using a ring-pull but stop when the
lid is only half way open. It 'look's like the jet hole could have
been pressed / punched open rather than drilled and this 'tab' left
over the hole to provide flow adjustment? The jet then feeds gas into
a steel tube that has two air intakes just by the jet. The air / gas
then mix down the tube then exit though a small perforated grill and
that's where the flame(s) sit. The actual flames are a nice blue and
no more that 3mm high and there are no 'nasty' fumes that I can smell
(and the canary is still singing ok g).

I re-assembled the whole thing but the flame(s) looks pretty much as
it did pre the good clean out and yet it still doesn't seem to work
under gas. (there is a gas thermostat and that seems to reduce the
flame when the control is turned to the lowest (warmest) setting
suggesting *something* is happening in there)?

How long should it take to start working under gas .. should it be the
same speed as electric (I believe the electric elements provide
'direct' heating whilst the gas is a more 'indirect' heat, via the
baffle?) I have just checked that it is running ok on 240V (it was)
and now switched over to gas to see if it will continue to run on gas
once started on electric?

Failing that ... watch out for the fridge shaped object flying your
way come November the 5th (or a month either side ..g)

All the best ..

T i m
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old October 19th 03, 07:47 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Tony Maris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 161
Default Under the microscope .. (gas experts)

Tim,

If it is working on mains there is no reason for it not to work on gas
provided that you have a nice flame with blue cones and not a mucky yellow
one. It could well be that the flue, burner etc simply need cleaning out.

Regards

--
Tony M
Towbars & Trailers
Chesterfield
Specialists in Towing Equipment
NTTA Council Member
http://www.towitall.co.uk
QSA accredited for Towbars and Trailers



"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi Folks,

Before I took the (old) 3 way 'WestWinter" portable fridge into the
garden and filled it with explosives (sold under the guise of "Fun
fireworks for all the family" g) I thought I'd give it a last look.

Symptoms, works ok under 12V or 240V but not (at all) under Gas.

I had been running it on the 37mbar reg but then found a loose paper
'plate' inside that suggested it was designed for 50mbar. Bought a 50
mbar reg, still no worky?

It was then suggested that there should be a 'baffle' hanging in the
flue (normally suspended in the flue by a wire hooked over the top
like on the Camping Gaz one I have) and I tried to fit one today but
couldn't .. as there was one in the already! It seems to be fitted
'internally' with a wire through the flue. Ho hum.

So, I took the feed pipe to the burner out and withdrew the 'jet'.
This seems to be a little nipple (sri ladies g) shaped tin thing
with a tiny hole through it that under the microscope looks partially
blocked by a piece of bent metal? When I say 'blocked' it's like if
you open the lid of a can of beans using a ring-pull but stop when the
lid is only half way open. It 'look's like the jet hole could have
been pressed / punched open rather than drilled and this 'tab' left
over the hole to provide flow adjustment? The jet then feeds gas into
a steel tube that has two air intakes just by the jet. The air / gas
then mix down the tube then exit though a small perforated grill and
that's where the flame(s) sit. The actual flames are a nice blue and
no more that 3mm high and there are no 'nasty' fumes that I can smell
(and the canary is still singing ok g).

I re-assembled the whole thing but the flame(s) looks pretty much as
it did pre the good clean out and yet it still doesn't seem to work
under gas. (there is a gas thermostat and that seems to reduce the
flame when the control is turned to the lowest (warmest) setting
suggesting *something* is happening in there)?

How long should it take to start working under gas .. should it be the
same speed as electric (I believe the electric elements provide
'direct' heating whilst the gas is a more 'indirect' heat, via the
baffle?) I have just checked that it is running ok on 240V (it was)
and now switched over to gas to see if it will continue to run on gas
once started on electric?

Failing that ... watch out for the fridge shaped object flying your
way come November the 5th (or a month either side ..g)

All the best ..

T i m



  #4 (permalink)  
Old October 19th 03, 09:19 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
T i m
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 219
Default Under the microscope .. (gas experts)

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 20:08:48 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

In article ,
says...
|How long should it take to start working under gas .. |
|

From memory, about a couple of hours should see it forming ice in the
freezer section.ll.

The flame should be about an 1" or so tall when on full, or calling for
cooling. It sounds as if your flame is much lower than this?


[T] Hi Harry g, Hmm, I wonder if there are different burner types?
This is a small grid of fine blue cones .. I can't see how heigh it
goes as the viewing 'window' obcures the view ..

Never heard of fireworks being stored in a fridge, working or not ;-)


[T] I'm not sure you'd call it *stroring* Harry ... and the fuse *is*
quite short ... ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

  #5 (permalink)  
Old October 19th 03, 09:19 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
T i m
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 219
Default Under the microscope .. (gas experts)

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 20:47:00 +0100, "Tony Maris"
wrote:

Tim,

If it is working on mains there is no reason for it not to work on gas
provided that you have a nice flame with blue cones and not a mucky yellow
one. It could well be that the flue, burner etc simply need cleaning out.

[T] Hi Tony,

Nice blue steady cones in a grid to match the holes in the grill on
the burner tube (whatever the tech name is).

I did mention that I cleaned it all out? The gas enters this 3" x 1/2"
square section bar (with a round hole through the middle) via the
'nipple' shaped jet (with the 'blockage'). Two holes in each side draw
in air and then it all mixes along the inside of the tube where it
turns through 90 deg to go through a perforated grill to form the
burner.

Under the microscope I can see what looks like an 'obstruction' on the
i/p side of the jet. Even under the microscope it is difficult to make
out exactly how this is formed but it looks like it is *supposed* to
be there (or wasn't removed during construction / repair).

As I mentioned before it looks like the burr that is formed when you
open a can with an old fashioned tin opener? I could of removed the
'partial blockage' of the jet by lifting it up / off with a fine
needle but I remember Michael warning me about poking my microns!

I have re-assembled the thing now as I can get to the jet from
underneath and just 4 screws if needed.

All the best ... and thanks for your time Tony ..

T i m
  #7 (permalink)  
Old October 20th 03, 06:28 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
QrizB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 95
Default Under the microscope .. (gas experts)

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:07:18 +0100, T i m wrote:

Failing that ... watch out for the fridge shaped object flying your
way come November the 5th (or a month either side ..g)


If you really can't get it to work, try selling it on eBay. You'll
probably get forty or fifty quid for it.

--
QrizB

I sound like I know what I'm talking about, but don't
be fooled.
  #8 (permalink)  
Old October 22nd 03, 07:26 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
CampinGazz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 339
Default Under the microscope .. (gas experts)


"QrizB" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:07:18 +0100, T i m wrote:

Failing that ... watch out for the fridge shaped object flying your
way come November the 5th (or a month either side ..g)


If you really can't get it to work, try selling it on eBay. You'll
probably get forty or fifty quid for it.


And then the person who buys it will buy a new jet, and have the thing
working

knew someone who bought an electrolux 60 litre 3 way fridge, sold as non
working on ebay, he got it for about 30 quid or so,
left it upside down for a day, righted it and tried it out.. worked
perfectly, seems some people still don't know the turn it upside down to
re-absorb the amonia crystals that form when they get too hot,

Anyway, practicaly all 3 way fridges should work best on gas.. the electric
is just a couple of small heater tubes strapped to the riser tube.. just
like the flue is for the gas burner,

If the fridge works on electric, then it's cooling system is fine,
Have you cleaned the flue out with a stiff bottle brush? kinda like what a
chimney sweep does.. but from top down, if the flue has a coating of soot on
it, this will be acting as an insulator and preventing the heat from the
flame transfering to the riser tube.

the baffle is also very importiany.. at it draws the flame up into the tube,
again for better heat transfer, on electrolux fridges it's a spiral of
metal, hung off a wire off the top of the flue,

But electrolux fridges have a 'proper' jet.. brass cone shaped thing with a
microscopic hole through it, and the burner is a tube, 90 degree bend, and a
gauze mesh over the top to spread the flame out.

Of course the best way to check when running on gas.. does the riser tube
get as hot as when on electric? wear gloves to do this, as the buggers get
very hot.. enough to take the skin of your arms when you are stupid enough
to lean over a working 3 way fridge to get at something above in in the van



 



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