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UK Caravanning (uk.rec.caravanning) A forum for the discussion of caravanning undertaken by residents of the United Kingdom, whether in the UK or abroad. It encourages the interchange of views on the merits of models of caravan, makes of tow car, accessories, caravan sites, caravan clubs, and other related topics. The term caravan is to include trailer vans, motor caravans and trailer tents.

Alternative to that Orange Cable.



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old October 24th 03, 04:36 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Pat McLoughlin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Alternative to that Orange Cable.

We are still learning the ropes, having used our "new" van for two and a
half seasons. We do like CLs, especially when its only 3 a night, they suit
us fine as we are totally self sufficient in our little tourer.
We can manage two weeks comfortably without mains hook-up, by juggling an 85
and two 110ah batteries. And that includes using a colour TV quite
extensively.
However a friend told me that it might be useful to carry an S cable
extension as a backup.
As we use our car every day usually using one site as a base, the car
battery is always well charged.
So most nights I hook up the car and van to save on the power. The S cable
extension cost me about 12 from a local caravan dealers. It is three and a
half metres long which means I can park the car alongside the van
comfortably. It also comes complete with a plastic reel for storage. I think
it was a very good investment.
One day I might get round to rigging up the necessary wires etc to enable me
to recharge a battery in the boot, but I am not sure which is the best way,
reading previous posts on this subject.

Cheers
Pat



Ads
  #2 (permalink)  
Old October 24th 03, 10:08 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Harry Bloomfield
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default Alternative to that Orange Cable.

In article ,
says...
|So most nights I hook up the car and van to save on the power. The S cable
|extension cost me about 12 from a local caravan dealers. It is three and a
|half metres long which means I can park the car alongside the van
|comfortably. It also comes complete with a plastic reel for storage. I think
|it was a very good investment.

By 'S cable', I assume you are running the van from your vehicles
battery... The risk in using that cable, is that you might find the
vehicle battery is flat the next morning. A much better investment if
you are serious about surviving without a mains supply, is good sized
solar panel.

|One day I might get round to rigging up the necessary wires etc to enable me
|to recharge a battery in the boot, but I am not sure which is the best way,
|reading previous posts on this subject.


This is a workable alternative if you do a good mileage each day while
away from the van, but it is not without cost. Your alternator will
require more input in order to charge the battery, which you will pay
for in extra fuel.

Whilst touring entirely on batteries, I have a battery in the boot. I
have a none reversible socket in the boot, which is connected to my
charge relay. A matching plug with a short length of red and black flex,
to the other end of this I have a pair of croc clips. I connect the croc
clips to the battery first and always double check the connections are
correct, before plugging in. This enables me to charge a spare battery
whilst out and about solo.

I simply make sure the battery is tightly wedged so it can't move in the
event of a minor accident. I don't worry about the battery gassing, as I
have always assumed that due to the resistance of the feed wire it will
not gas much if at all.

This is the method I have used for perhaps twenty years of caravanning,
during the early part of which mains hook-ups were not that common and
without the slightest problem so far.


|
|

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org
  #3 (permalink)  
Old October 24th 03, 10:48 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
QrizB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 95
Default Alternative to that Orange Cable.

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 23:08:21 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

This is a workable alternative if you do a good mileage each day while
away from the van, but it is not without cost. Your alternator will
require more input in order to charge the battery, which you will pay
for in extra fuel.


I've often wondered how much it costs to charge a battery this way, so
(if you'll humour me) I'll work it out.

An 110Ah battery holds 1320Wh (= 4.75MJ) of energy.

Petrol has a calorific value of 43 MJ per kg and a density of 0.74 kg
per litre, so 1 litre of petrol contains 31.8 MJ of energy.
(http://yarchive.net/env/car_hydrogen_tank.html)

A petrol engine is typically 25% efficient, and the attached
alternator manages 80% efficiency.
(http://www.tech.plym.ac.uk/sme/THER2...b/enrgyeff.pdf)
(http://www.tech.plym.ac.uk/sme/THER2...-tut-enrgy.htm)

So, in terms of electrical energy transferred to our battery each
litre of petrol will supply (31.8 x 0.25 x 0.8) or 6.36 MJ.

So, to charge a 110Ah battery from "flat" will use an additional (4.75
/ 6.36) or 0.75 litres of fuel!

--
QrizB

I sound like I know what I'm talking about, but don't
be fooled.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old October 25th 03, 08:03 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Stuart Robinson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 97
Default Alternative to that Orange Cable.

Gosh, I will save that.

Stuart.
  #5 (permalink)  
Old October 25th 03, 08:03 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Stuart Robinson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 97
Default Alternative to that Orange Cable.

By 'S cable', I assume you are running the van from your vehicles
battery... The risk in using that cable, is that you might find the
vehicle battery is flat the next morning


And apart from the obvious problem of starting said vehicle again, if you
run the car battery flat its a good way to knacker them PDQ, they are
designed for max cranking current and dont survive deep discharge at all
well.

Stuart.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old October 27th 03, 10:46 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Phil Kyle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Alternative to that Orange Cable.

Harry Bloomfield wrote in
:

In article ,
says...
|So most nights I hook up the car and van to save on the power. The S
|cabl
e
|extension cost me about 12 from a local caravan dealers. It is three
|a
nd a
|half metres long which means I can park the car alongside the van
|comfortably. It also comes complete with a plastic reel for storage.
|I th
ink
|it was a very good investment.

By 'S cable', I assume you are running the van from your vehicles
battery... The risk in using that cable, is that you might find the
vehicle battery is flat the next morning. A much better investment if
you are serious about surviving without a mains supply, is good sized
solar panel.


Renewable energy, most honourable. Pity the average caravanner drives a
diesel spewing pile of crap that does about 2mpg.


|One day I might get round to rigging up the necessary wires etc to
|enable
me
|to recharge a battery in the boot, but I am not sure which is the
|best wa
y,
|reading previous posts on this subject.


This is a workable alternative if you do a good mileage each day while
away from the van, but it is not without cost. Your alternator will
require more input in order to charge the battery, which you will pay
for in extra fuel.

Whilst touring entirely on batteries,


Do you have a pacemaker Harry?

I have a battery in the boot.

Sounds painful.

I
have a none reversible socket in the boot,


I should hope so!

which is connected to my
charge relay.


Never heard it called that before, but each to his own.

A matching plug with a short length

Don't be modest Harry.

of red and black
flex, to the other end of this I have a pair of croc clips. I connect
the croc clips to the battery first and always double check the
connections are correct, before plugging in. This enables me to charge
a spare battery whilst out and about solo.


I somehow suspected you do it solo.


I simply make sure the battery is tightly wedged


I bet you do.

so it can't move in
the event of a minor accident.


Oh yes, the old "minor accident" eh. No wonder you're always going solo.

I don't worry about the battery
gassing,


Most unfortunate. Tends to ruin the mood I fear.

as I have always assumed that due to the resistance of the
feed wire it will not gas much if at all.

This is the method I have used for perhaps twenty years of
caravanning, during the early part of which mains hook-ups were not
that common and without the slightest problem so far.


Hook-ups, I get you!


--
Phil Kyle




http://thrill.to/philkyle


  #7 (permalink)  
Old October 29th 03, 09:13 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Stuart Bell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Alternative to that Orange Cable.

QrizB wrote:

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 23:08:21 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

This is a workable alternative if you do a good mileage each day while
away from the van, but it is not without cost. Your alternator will
require more input in order to charge the battery, which you will pay
for in extra fuel.


I've often wondered how much it costs to charge a battery this way, so
(if you'll humour me) I'll work it out.

An 110Ah battery holds 1320Wh (= 4.75MJ) of energy.

Petrol has a calorific value of 43 MJ per kg and a density of 0.74 kg
per litre, so 1 litre of petrol contains 31.8 MJ of energy.
(http://yarchive.net/env/car_hydrogen_tank.html)

A petrol engine is typically 25% efficient, and the attached
alternator manages 80% efficiency.
(http://www.tech.plym.ac.uk/sme/THER2...b/enrgyeff.pdf)
(http://www.tech.plym.ac.uk/sme/THER2...-tut-enrgy.htm)

So, in terms of electrical energy transferred to our battery each
litre of petrol will supply (31.8 x 0.25 x 0.8) or 6.36 MJ.

So, to charge a 110Ah battery from "flat" will use an additional (4.75
/ 6.36) or 0.75 litres of fuel!


I enjoyed that, thanks! So which is cheaper, recharging from the mains
or by the above method?

Incidentally, the men in white coats are waiting for you:
(http://www.funnyfarm.hosp.uk/admissi...k_syndrome.htm)

Stuart


--
Spamfritterspam exists only in the world of the address
harvesting spam bot. Try stuartsmacs at the same domain
if you want to email me.
I HAVE paid for MacSoup - waiting for the registration code!
  #8 (permalink)  
Old October 29th 03, 09:28 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Ed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 31
Default Alternative to that Orange Cable.

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 23:08:21 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:


Whilst touring entirely on batteries, I have a battery in the boot. I
have a none reversible socket in the boot, which is connected to my
charge relay. A matching plug with a short length of red and black flex,
to the other end of this I have a pair of croc clips. I connect the croc
clips to the battery first and always double check the connections are
correct, before plugging in. This enables me to charge a spare battery
whilst out and about solo.

I simply make sure the battery is tightly wedged so it can't move in the
event of a minor accident. I don't worry about the battery gassing, as I
have always assumed that due to the resistance of the feed wire it will
not gas much if at all.


If you have a flat battery and the "charge relay" has kicked in and
the alternator starts supplying 60 amps where do you think all of the
current is going to go?

Won't it become heat and burn your cable out?
Won't 60 amp start to gas the battery and/or burn out the wiring (your
wiring)

Surely your cable should be able to cope with the worst scenario?

Ed



This is the method I have used for perhaps twenty years of caravanning,
during the early part of which mains hook-ups were not that common and
without the slightest problem so far.


  #10 (permalink)  
Old October 30th 03, 08:50 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Harry Bloomfield
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 582
Default Alternative to that Orange Cable.

In article , [email protected]
eddie.co.uk says...
|
| If you have a flat battery and the "charge relay" has kicked in and
| the alternator starts supplying 60 amps where do you think all of the
| current is going to go?
|
| Won't it become heat and burn your cable out?
| Won't 60 amp start to gas the battery and/or burn out the wiring (your
| wiring)
|
| Surely your cable should be able to cope with the worst scenario?
|
|

Assuming your alternator were rated at 60amps, that is 60amps total
loading. Some of that will be delivered to items on the car (lights,
ignition, wipers, vehicle battery).

The voltage of the battery in the boot will soon rise to match the 14v
output of the alternators output, the resistance of the cable run will
also limit current and the supply is usually fused at 15 or 20amps....
Remember, this fused supply is intended to charge both the battery and
supply a 12v fridge whilst on the move.

The net effect is that you will be lucky to be able to charge the
battery at anything more than 5 to 10amps.

The lower the voltage, or the higher the current, the thicker the cable
has to be in order for the voltage not to drop along its length, due to
the cables resistance. Which is why larger commercial vehicles use 24v
and why the national grid runs at 1/3 of a million volts.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT)...

Remove the 'NOSPAM' in my email address to reply.

Free Amateur Radio Courses:-
http://www.ukradioamateur.org
 



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