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UK Motor Caravans (uk.rec.motorcaravans)

Caravan Club censorship



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old September 5th 05, 09:52 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
dark horse
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Caravan Club censorship

I would like you all to know how the Caravan Club deals with members who
express dissent....it gags them!
On seeing an article in the July magazine in which the Club Chairman spoke
out against wild camping, saying it was illegal in the UK and deploring
"trends" which encourage off-site camping elsewhere (Aire de Camping Cars
presumably) I wrote to the magazine suggesting he should more accurately
reflect the views of motor caravanners who want to use their vehicles for
their best purpose...touring! I also challenged him to name the Act and
Section of this mythical law which prevents us doing what comes naturally,
i.e. sleeping. I pointed out that every night thousands of truckers do it
in lay-bys and car parks without getting into trouble. Result? Not a word
published.When my membership comes up for renewal I shall be doing some
serious thinking about whether the Caravan Club is really interested in
motor-caravanners.Any support on this?


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old September 5th 05, 10:27 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
DaveK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 885
Default Caravan Club censorship

also challenged him to name the Act and
Section of this mythical law which prevents us doing what comes naturally,
i.e. sleeping. I pointed out that every night thousands of truckers do
it
in lay-bys and car parks without getting into trouble.


I asked the CC what is the legislation (chapter and verse of the statute) on
their stance on the alleged offence of carrying passengers in a touring
caravan, other than a qualified engineer carrying out a road test. They
replied with a reference to the Con and Use Regs which didn't fit the bill
at all.
Still not convinced it's an actual offence, or at least one that's been
tested in court.
They often provide advice to newcomers suggesting it's the law, when it's
only advisory (like with regard to towing weights).
To give them credit-they have to give general advice which isn't against the
principle of good caravanning practice, so they will advise against staying
overnight in laybys.
DaveK.


  #3 (permalink)  
Old September 5th 05, 10:27 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
DaveK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 885
Default Caravan Club censorship

also challenged him to name the Act and
Section of this mythical law which prevents us doing what comes naturally,
i.e. sleeping. I pointed out that every night thousands of truckers do
it
in lay-bys and car parks without getting into trouble.


I asked the CC what is the legislation (chapter and verse of the statute) on
their stance on the alleged offence of carrying passengers in a touring
caravan, other than a qualified engineer carrying out a road test. They
replied with a reference to the Con and Use Regs which didn't fit the bill
at all.
Still not convinced it's an actual offence, or at least one that's been
tested in court.
They often provide advice to newcomers suggesting it's the law, when it's
only advisory (like with regard to towing weights).
To give them credit-they have to give general advice which isn't against the
principle of good caravanning practice, so they will advise against staying
overnight in laybys.
DaveK.


  #4 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 07:23 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 870
Default Caravan Club censorship

"davek" wrote in
:

I asked the CC what is the legislation (chapter and verse of the
statute) on their stance on the alleged offence of carrying passengers
in a touring caravan, other than a qualified engineer carrying out a
road test. They replied with a reference to the Con and Use Regs which
didn't fit the bill at all.


AFAICT, if the caravan was manufactured after August 1998 (i.e. when type
approval came into force), it is an offence under the Construction and
Use Regs to carry passengers in any vehicle unless in a designated seat
fitted with a seat belt. So, on that count, I suspect the CC are correct.

However, a search on the Internet reveals that the carriage of passengers
in a trailer is an offence (offence code 50.12.012) that does not carry
penalty points. Since the carriage of passengers is "use", I suspect it
would be more appropriate for the C&U regs (than the Road Traffic Act) to
forbid it.

Back to "dark horse"'s post. AIUI technically wild camping isn't strictly
legal in England and Wales (but is in Scotland) because you should seek
the land owner's permission. Pragmatically, provided you don't cause an
obstruction or park where there is a sign saying no overnight stays, you
will probably get away with it! Of course, the CC want to dissuade you
from wild camping because that increases the chance you'll fetch up on
one of their campsites!

That said, after the Pajero clutch fiasco, I now take everything that the
CC print with a huge dose of salt. Considering the source of that fiasco
was allegedly Red Pennant, I now wouldn't touch Red Pennant with a
bargepole.

The "Pajero Fiasco?": In (IIRC) the March issue the CC published that,
while Shoguns are excellent towcars, Pajeros (the Japanese home market
equivalent) are rubbish towcars because their clutches aren't up to the
job. One dealer in Wales allegedly saw this issue "on a daily basis". The
CC claims don't stand up to scrutiny:

1. Manual Pajeros are rare because the Japanese prefer autos. Autos don't
have clutches, so it's very unlikely that the welsh dealer would have
many manual Pajeros in his area, let alone enough to see a clutch problem
"on a daily basis".

2. With one minor exception, the clutch on manual Pajeros is the same
part as fitted to the equivalent Shogun!

I phoned the CC and subsequently spoke to "Suzanne", the alleged source
of the disinformation. She said that they were trying to highlight that
grey imports didn't have dealer support and that they couldn't get parts
for these vehicles. The CC mag editor said the same thing in the
following issue in response to a letter from a Pajero Owners Club member.

Ironically, the Mitsubishi Pajero is one of the few grey imports to enjoy
full main dealer support Worldwide. For example, my local Mitsubishi main
dealer has carried recall work free of charge on my 1995 LWB Pajero, and
I only had to wait a couple of days for some "dealer-only" parts.

Perhaps you can understand my dismay at CC and Red Pennant's obvious
technical incompetence. Although I contacted both the CC and Red Pennant,
they have yet to print a correction. I spoke to the Press Complaints
Commission about this. If the CC magazine was on general sale, they would
be obliged to print a retraction. However, because it's a members-only
publication, they PCC can't do a thing about it. So, I would suggest that
readers should not rely on anything the CC publish. Always verify
information in the CC magazine, because they have been shown to be
somewhat economical with the truth at times.

--
Geoff Lane
Cornwall, UK
  #5 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 07:23 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 870
Default Caravan Club censorship

"davek" wrote in
:

I asked the CC what is the legislation (chapter and verse of the
statute) on their stance on the alleged offence of carrying passengers
in a touring caravan, other than a qualified engineer carrying out a
road test. They replied with a reference to the Con and Use Regs which
didn't fit the bill at all.


AFAICT, if the caravan was manufactured after August 1998 (i.e. when type
approval came into force), it is an offence under the Construction and
Use Regs to carry passengers in any vehicle unless in a designated seat
fitted with a seat belt. So, on that count, I suspect the CC are correct.

However, a search on the Internet reveals that the carriage of passengers
in a trailer is an offence (offence code 50.12.012) that does not carry
penalty points. Since the carriage of passengers is "use", I suspect it
would be more appropriate for the C&U regs (than the Road Traffic Act) to
forbid it.

Back to "dark horse"'s post. AIUI technically wild camping isn't strictly
legal in England and Wales (but is in Scotland) because you should seek
the land owner's permission. Pragmatically, provided you don't cause an
obstruction or park where there is a sign saying no overnight stays, you
will probably get away with it! Of course, the CC want to dissuade you
from wild camping because that increases the chance you'll fetch up on
one of their campsites!

That said, after the Pajero clutch fiasco, I now take everything that the
CC print with a huge dose of salt. Considering the source of that fiasco
was allegedly Red Pennant, I now wouldn't touch Red Pennant with a
bargepole.

The "Pajero Fiasco?": In (IIRC) the March issue the CC published that,
while Shoguns are excellent towcars, Pajeros (the Japanese home market
equivalent) are rubbish towcars because their clutches aren't up to the
job. One dealer in Wales allegedly saw this issue "on a daily basis". The
CC claims don't stand up to scrutiny:

1. Manual Pajeros are rare because the Japanese prefer autos. Autos don't
have clutches, so it's very unlikely that the welsh dealer would have
many manual Pajeros in his area, let alone enough to see a clutch problem
"on a daily basis".

2. With one minor exception, the clutch on manual Pajeros is the same
part as fitted to the equivalent Shogun!

I phoned the CC and subsequently spoke to "Suzanne", the alleged source
of the disinformation. She said that they were trying to highlight that
grey imports didn't have dealer support and that they couldn't get parts
for these vehicles. The CC mag editor said the same thing in the
following issue in response to a letter from a Pajero Owners Club member.

Ironically, the Mitsubishi Pajero is one of the few grey imports to enjoy
full main dealer support Worldwide. For example, my local Mitsubishi main
dealer has carried recall work free of charge on my 1995 LWB Pajero, and
I only had to wait a couple of days for some "dealer-only" parts.

Perhaps you can understand my dismay at CC and Red Pennant's obvious
technical incompetence. Although I contacted both the CC and Red Pennant,
they have yet to print a correction. I spoke to the Press Complaints
Commission about this. If the CC magazine was on general sale, they would
be obliged to print a retraction. However, because it's a members-only
publication, they PCC can't do a thing about it. So, I would suggest that
readers should not rely on anything the CC publish. Always verify
information in the CC magazine, because they have been shown to be
somewhat economical with the truth at times.

--
Geoff Lane
Cornwall, UK
  #6 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 11:21 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
DaveK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 885
Default Caravan Club censorship


. So, I would suggest that readers should not rely on anything the CC
publish. Always verify
information in the CC magazine, because they have been shown to be
somewhat economical with the truth at times.

Thanks Geoff,
Informative, factual and concise.
DaveK.


  #7 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 11:21 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
DaveK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 885
Default Caravan Club censorship


. So, I would suggest that readers should not rely on anything the CC
publish. Always verify
information in the CC magazine, because they have been shown to be
somewhat economical with the truth at times.

Thanks Geoff,
Informative, factual and concise.
DaveK.


  #8 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 12:52 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Les
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default Caravan Club censorship

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:52:36 +0100, "dark horse"
wrote:

I would like you all to know how the Caravan Club deals with members who
express dissent....it gags them!
[clipped]

As a life member since 1951 (yes, 1951), I must say that I agree with
you. It was not always like that and the organisation has become more
and more dictatorial as it has become larger.

Either comments are ignored or, as you say, censored - or answered
with a 'mother knows best' tone.

Starting in about 1998 I tried to get the CC to set up a web site and
mailing facility. 'There's no call for it', or words to that effect
was the reply. They also ignored my letters to the editor of the club
magazine. It was not until the CC&C started their web site that they
decided to follow suit.

As for camping wild, use common sense and courtesy and you'll be okay.
I have frequently camped wild in the wild parts of the Scottish
Highlands and the west coast of Arran.

Les
  #9 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 12:52 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Les
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default Caravan Club censorship

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:52:36 +0100, "dark horse"
wrote:

I would like you all to know how the Caravan Club deals with members who
express dissent....it gags them!
[clipped]

As a life member since 1951 (yes, 1951), I must say that I agree with
you. It was not always like that and the organisation has become more
and more dictatorial as it has become larger.

Either comments are ignored or, as you say, censored - or answered
with a 'mother knows best' tone.

Starting in about 1998 I tried to get the CC to set up a web site and
mailing facility. 'There's no call for it', or words to that effect
was the reply. They also ignored my letters to the editor of the club
magazine. It was not until the CC&C started their web site that they
decided to follow suit.

As for camping wild, use common sense and courtesy and you'll be okay.
I have frequently camped wild in the wild parts of the Scottish
Highlands and the west coast of Arran.

Les
  #10 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 02:14 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
johnh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 91
Default Caravan Club censorship


"dark horse" wrote in message
...
I would like you all to know how the Caravan Club deals with members who
express dissent....it gags them!
On seeing an article in the July magazine in which the Club Chairman spoke
out against wild camping, saying it was illegal in the UK and deploring
"trends" which encourage off-site camping elsewhere (Aire de Camping Cars
presumably) I wrote to the magazine suggesting he should more accurately
reflect the views of motor caravanners who want to use their vehicles for
their best purpose...touring! I also challenged him to name the Act and
Section of this mythical law which prevents us doing what comes naturally,
i.e. sleeping. I pointed out that every night thousands of truckers do

it
in lay-bys and car parks without getting into trouble. Result? Not a

word
published.When my membership comes up for renewal I shall be doing some
serious thinking about whether the Caravan Club is really interested in
motor-caravanners.Any support on this?


I've only ever been a member of one caravan type club and that was the ccc.

I ceased membership quite a few years ago, as the ccc published a letter
from someone slagging off wildcamping - it wasn't light hearted either.

Its clear both the cc and thee ccc are clearly campaigning against
wildcamping and motorhoming.

With regards to wildcamping in the UK, it may not be law, however in West
Yorkshire the park rangers claim they now have bye-laws against wildcamping.
Won't go there again.


 



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