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UK Caravanning (uk.rec.caravanning) A forum for the discussion of caravanning undertaken by residents of the United Kingdom, whether in the UK or abroad. It encourages the interchange of views on the merits of models of caravan, makes of tow car, accessories, caravan sites, caravan clubs, and other related topics. The term caravan is to include trailer vans, motor caravans and trailer tents.

Anyone tow with an Espace?



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old November 1st 03, 06:11 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Pete
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Posts: 13
Default Anyone tow with an Espace?

Hi

I'm thinking of buying an Espace and wondered if anyone had any experience
of towing with such a vehicle. The version I'm looking at has a 16v 2.0
petrol engine (140bhp). My caravan is a single axle, 4 berth Compass Omega.
Can't see any problems on paper but you never know.

Thanks
Pete


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old November 1st 03, 06:55 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
DC
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Posts: 56
Default Anyone tow with an Espace?


"Pete" wrote in message
...
Hi

I'm thinking of buying an Espace and wondered if anyone had any experience
of towing with such a vehicle. The version I'm looking at has a 16v 2.0
petrol engine (140bhp). My caravan is a single axle, 4 berth Compass

Omega.
Can't see any problems on paper but you never know.

Thanks
Pete



Yes I do BRILLIANT wouldn't swap it , must admit a small van , have to watch
the speed though can easily creep up to +20 and don't even realise it.

Had the Espace for 6 years now , new espace's metal now uuuuuugh !

DeeSee


  #3 (permalink)  
Old November 1st 03, 09:51 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Doc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 91
Default Anyone tow with an Espace?

"Pete" wrote in message ...
Hi

I'm thinking of buying an Espace and wondered if anyone had any experience
of towing with such a vehicle. The version I'm looking at has a 16v 2.0
petrol engine (140bhp). My caravan is a single axle, 4 berth Compass Omega.
Can't see any problems on paper but you never know.

----****----
Pete,

The problem with Renaults is in fact 'on the paper' or more strictly
the car's manual.

The big problem with Renaults, as towcars, is in the maximum trailer
mass (or towing limit), stipulated in the manual. Renault are alone,
I think, in giving 2 figures; the one in the sales brochures, and
invariably quoted by salesmen, is the towing limit WITH JUST THE
DRIVER in the towcar. The second limit, which is as low as 1000kgs,
is the limit given in the car's manual for the towcar in 'any other
condition' or loaded above 'just the driver'.
Practically this means that a family can only, legally, tow a 'van up
to this lower limit of ~1000kgs.

Before you buy, CHECK this towing limit in the car's manual. I'm not
sure if the Espace is an exception to this ridiculous practice of
Renault's, but it applies to Scenics and the Vel Satis. This later
has a kerbweight of ~1600kgs, BUT, with more than just a driver in the
car, the towing limit is de-rated to ~1000kgs. Crazy!!

This has been an on-going problem with Renault for ~4 years at least.
[see earlier postings on this NG; do a google-search]. Whether it has
been addressed in new models I don't know, but for heavens sake check.

Although there may be many people towing with Renaults, who are
unaware of the 'problem', if their 'van exceeds this lower towing
limit and there's more than just the driver, then I'm afraid they are
towing illegally.

Take care, Cheers, Doc.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old November 1st 03, 11:12 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
DC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 56
Default Anyone tow with an Espace?


"Doc" wrote in message
om...
"Pete" wrote in message

...
Hi

I'm thinking of buying an Espace and wondered if anyone had any

experience
of towing with such a vehicle. The version I'm looking at has a 16v 2.0
petrol engine (140bhp). My caravan is a single axle, 4 berth Compass

Omega.
Can't see any problems on paper but you never know.

----****----
Pete,

The problem with Renaults is in fact 'on the paper' or more strictly
the car's manual.

The big problem with Renaults, as towcars, is in the maximum trailer
mass (or towing limit), stipulated in the manual. Renault are alone,
I think, in giving 2 figures; the one in the sales brochures, and
invariably quoted by salesmen, is the towing limit WITH JUST THE
DRIVER in the towcar. The second limit, which is as low as 1000kgs,
is the limit given in the car's manual for the towcar in 'any other
condition' or loaded above 'just the driver'.
Practically this means that a family can only, legally, tow a 'van up
to this lower limit of ~1000kgs.

Before you buy, CHECK this towing limit in the car's manual. I'm not
sure if the Espace is an exception to this ridiculous practice of
Renault's, but it applies to Scenics and the Vel Satis. This later
has a kerbweight of ~1600kgs, BUT, with more than just a driver in the
car, the towing limit is de-rated to ~1000kgs. Crazy!!

This has been an on-going problem with Renault for ~4 years at least.
[see earlier postings on this NG; do a google-search]. Whether it has
been addressed in new models I don't know, but for heavens sake check.

Although there may be many people towing with Renaults, who are
unaware of the 'problem', if their 'van exceeds this lower towing
limit and there's more than just the driver, then I'm afraid they are
towing illegally.

Take care, Cheers, Doc.



My manual for the MK3 Espace states

Kerb Weight 130 to 1430 Kg


Maximum Gross vehicle weight 200 to 2230 Kg

Regards

DeeSee


  #5 (permalink)  
Old November 2nd 03, 08:01 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Budgie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 347
Default Anyone tow with an Espace?

"DC" wrote in message
...
|
| My manual for the MK3 Espace states
|
| Kerb Weight 130 to 1430 Kg
|
|
| Maximum Gross vehicle weight 200 to 2230 Kg
|


Pardon?

Budgie


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.534 / Virus Database: 329 - Release Date: 31/10/2003


  #6 (permalink)  
Old November 2nd 03, 08:30 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Pete
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Anyone tow with an Espace?


"DC" wrote in message
...

Yes I do BRILLIANT wouldn't swap it , must admit a small van , have to

watch
the speed though can easily creep up to +20 and don't even realise it.

Had the Espace for 6 years now , new espace's metal now uuuuuugh !


Actually, it's a 12m old Mk3 I'm looking at - still plastic.
I've since heard and read that reliability is a big issue with these
vehicles, with repair bills sometimes running into 1000's.
How has your's been?

This issue with the towing weight is also a bit worrying - need to get that
sorted.

Pete


  #7 (permalink)  
Old November 2nd 03, 08:33 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Doc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 91
Default Anyone tow with an Espace?

"DC" responded to Doc's cautionary tale to "Pete"
Hi

I'm thinking of buying an Espace and wondered if anyone had any

experience
of towing with such a vehicle. The version I'm looking at has a 16v 2.0
petrol engine (140bhp). My caravan is a single axle, 4 berth Compass

Omega.
Can't see any problems on paper but you never know.

----****----
Pete,

The problem with Renaults is in fact 'on the paper' or more strictly
the car's manual.

The big problem with Renaults, as towcars, is in the maximum trailer
mass (or towing limit), stipulated in the manual. Renault are alone,
I think, in giving 2 figures; the one in the sales brochures, and
invariably quoted by salesmen, is the towing limit WITH JUST THE
DRIVER in the towcar. .....snip......


My manual for the MK3 Espace states

Kerb Weight 130 to 1430 Kg


Maximum Gross vehicle weight 200 to 2230 Kg

----****----
DeeSee,

That's fine, PROVIDED that there is NO mention of a permissible
trailer limit. or max. permissible trailer mass etc. anywhere in the
manual.

Most manuals, but not all, and certainly other Renault ones, do give a
max. towing limit.
Otherwise, how do you know what you can legally tow, without reference
to the vin-plate and doing a few calculations?! And you also need to
know the relevant calculations, and data required!

The 85% rule is just advisory and, given the manufacturer's relevent
towing limits, it is not illegal to tow more than 100% of kerbweight,
provided you have an older driving licence (pre 1/1/97??).

Have a good look through the manual, and refer to the data on the
vin-plate to work out what mass you can LEGALLY tow.
Best of luck, this whole area is a 'minefield', and I think there may
be moves afoot to clarify both, terminology, and manufacturer's towing
limits.

Take care, Cheers, Doc.
  #8 (permalink)  
Old November 2nd 03, 08:59 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
James W. West
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Anyone tow with an Espace?


"Pete" wrote in message
...

"DC" wrote in message
...

Yes I do BRILLIANT wouldn't swap it , must admit a small van , have to

watch
the speed though can easily creep up to +20 and don't even realise it.

Had the Espace for 6 years now , new espace's metal now uuuuuugh !


Actually, it's a 12m old Mk3 I'm looking at - still plastic.
I've since heard and read that reliability is a big issue with these
vehicles, with repair bills sometimes running into 1000's.
How has your's been?

This issue with the towing weight is also a bit worrying - need to get

that
sorted.

Pete

I had a mark 2 Espace and did tow with it, with no problems. Unfortunately
it was a long time ago and I cannnot remember all the details, but I am
usually quite careful to stay within the law.

I followed it with a Galaxy, and it was much heavier and struggled going
uphill without towing. They were both 2 litre petrol, fairly basic models.

The Espace had problems with the cooling system, but was generally pretty
good. I never had a 4 figure repair bill in 5 years 55,000 miles.

James


  #9 (permalink)  
Old November 2nd 03, 10:35 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Lenny
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 989
Default Anyone tow with an Espace?

On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:30:41 +0000 (UTC), "Pete"
wrote:


"DC" wrote in message
...

Yes I do BRILLIANT wouldn't swap it , must admit a small van , have to

watch
the speed though can easily creep up to +20 and don't even realise it.

Had the Espace for 6 years now , new espace's metal now uuuuuugh !


Actually, it's a 12m old Mk3 I'm looking at - still plastic.
I've since heard and read that reliability is a big issue with these
vehicles, with repair bills sometimes running into 1000's.
How has your's been?

This issue with the towing weight is also a bit worrying - need to get that
sorted.

Pete

You've just reminded me one of my friends had a new one 4 years ago 2
gearboxes & 2 clutch's in first 2 years & that was only the minor
problems.

Lenny

  #10 (permalink)  
Old November 2nd 03, 12:59 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Mike John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Anyone tow with an Espace?

From Espace owners manual (figures for RTE_RXE 2.2 Diesel with 'Grand' body (JEOEL5)

Kerb Weight: 1670kg
Max gross Weight 2510 Kg
Max train weight 3660 Kg
Max trailer 1700Kg

These figures for a year 2000 Model. V6 limits all slightly higher, smaller petrol and 1.9 Diesel all slightly lower. Figures for 'standard' body almost identical except for kerb weight being about 40Kg lighter.

So if car loaded to Max (2510 kg ) that would leave 1150 Kg for van befoe you hit the max train weight. If car lightly loaded and yiu had the max trailer (1700) you would be pretty well at 100% van to car ratio but a car payload of (3660 - 1700 - 1670) of only 290 Kg. Personaly i tow a van of about 1300kg (gross) and you hardly know it is there.

I can't find any suggestion that figiures vary WRT only having the driver on board - can anyone point me to where that may be mentioned.

Mike John





 



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