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UK Caravanning (uk.rec.caravanning) A forum for the discussion of caravanning undertaken by residents of the United Kingdom, whether in the UK or abroad. It encourages the interchange of views on the merits of models of caravan, makes of tow car, accessories, caravan sites, caravan clubs, and other related topics. The term caravan is to include trailer vans, motor caravans and trailer tents.

Discovery Towbars



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old November 2nd 03, 09:36 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 870
Default Discovery Towbars

I'm thinking of getting a Landrover Discovery for my next towcar. However,
I would also like to use the car off-road and therein lies a quandry:

The requirements of towing and off-roading are at loggerheads because a
towbar acts like a plough in many situations. I've found two quickly-
detachable towbars for the disco (one from Scorpion Racing and one from
Southdown), but neither are type-approved. So, unless I can find a suitable
type-approved towbar, legislation rules out anything later than July 1998.

Does anyone know of a type-approved, quickly-detachable towbar for the
Series 2 Discovery?

TIA,

--
Geoff Lane
Cornwall, UK
Ads
  #2 (permalink)  
Old November 3rd 03, 10:43 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Paul - xxx
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,042
Default Discovery Towbars

Geoff Lane tried to scribble ...

I'm thinking of getting a Landrover Discovery for my next towcar.
However, I would also like to use the car off-road and therein lies a
quandry:

The requirements of towing and off-roading are at loggerheads because
a towbar acts like a plough in many situations. I've found two
quickly- detachable towbars for the disco (one from Scorpion Racing
and one from Southdown), but neither are type-approved. So, unless I
can find a suitable type-approved towbar, legislation rules out
anything later than July 1998.

Does anyone know of a type-approved, quickly-detachable towbar for the
Series 2 Discovery?

TIA,


We off-road extensively, as well as taking trailers full of Motocross /
Trials / Mountain bikes to wherever they need to go. Although our towbar is
a 'standard' LR one, it has never actually been a problem, even in 'proper'
trials. It does tend to plough a bit, but we've never had a problem with it
... indeed the base plate has a flat bottom to it, with a small kick-up that
effectively allows us to use the towbar as a 'gauge' as to how close we are
to wheelieing .. We don't (haven't yet anyway) use it off-road in a
rocky ground situation where a plough may not be good .. In the mud and
sandy areas we compete and green lane in it simply hasn't been a problem at
all.

Look here for a pic of how our towbar sits, I don't have any details of how
high etc it is, but AFAIK it's stock LR kit ..

http://groups.msn.com/losipaulspictu...to&PhotoID=105

http://groups.msn.com/losipaulspictu...ox.msnw?Page=4

--
Digweed
....


  #3 (permalink)  
Old November 3rd 03, 11:24 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Dave Fawthrop
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,941
Default Discovery Towbars

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:43:49 -0000, "Paul - xxx"
wrote:


| We off-road extensively, as well as taking trailers full of Motocross /
| Trials / Mountain bikes to wherever they need to go. Although our towbar is
| a 'standard' LR one, it has never actually been a problem, even in 'proper'
| trials. It does tend to plough a bit, but we've never had a problem with it
| .. indeed the base plate has a flat bottom to it, with a small kick-up that
| effectively allows us to use the towbar as a 'gauge' as to how close we are
| to wheelieing .. We don't (haven't yet anyway) use it off-road in a
| rocky ground situation where a plough may not be good .. In the mud and
| sandy areas we compete and green lane in it simply hasn't been a problem at
| all.

As a walker who uses green lanes, I am appauled that you concider
"ploughing" up "Green Lanes" with your tow bar has not "actually been a
problem". Also that "wheelieing" on "Green Lanes" is in any way
acceptable.

It is hardly surprising that local authorities are closing green lanes to
4x4 vandals such as yourself.

--
Dave Fawthrop FTV Satellite ITV, Ch4 and 5.
To receive These+Beeb+others, Free To View from satellite get a Next
Generation viewing card. Ring 08700 54 1800. *Domestic* card costs
GBP23.50. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/digital/channels.shtml




  #4 (permalink)  
Old November 3rd 03, 12:34 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
John Manders
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 95
Default Discovery Towbars

As a walker who uses green lanes, I am appauled that you concider
"ploughing" up "Green Lanes" with your tow bar has not "actually been a
problem". Also that "wheelieing" on "Green Lanes" is in any way
acceptable.

It is hardly surprising that local authorities are closing green lanes to
4x4 vandals such as yourself.

--

I suggest that you consider the term "ploughing" in the context in which it
was intended. The OP is obviously concerned about his tow bar digging into
the ground This is known as "ploughing" and is not done intentionally.
As a walker, you above all should support the "live and let live" policy
which may give us the right to roam. Green lanes are for all to enjoy and
are vehicular rights of way. They should not be considered as being for the
sole use of any one group. After all, there are many more areas for us
walkers to enjoy ourselves than there are places for off roaders to enjoy
their 4x4's, trial bikes, cars, etc.

John


  #5 (permalink)  
Old November 3rd 03, 01:11 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Dave Fawthrop
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,941
Default Discovery Towbars

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:34:15 -0000, "John Manders"
wrote:

| As a walker who uses green lanes, I am appauled that you concider
| "ploughing" up "Green Lanes" with your tow bar has not "actually been a
| problem". Also that "wheelieing" on "Green Lanes" is in any way
| acceptable.
|
| It is hardly surprising that local authorities are closing green lanes to
| 4x4 vandals such as yourself.
|
| --
| I suggest that you consider the term "ploughing" in the context in which it
| was intended. The OP is obviously concerned about his tow bar digging into
| the ground This is known as "ploughing" and is not done intentionally.

Damage is damage whether intentional or not.
http://www.ydgla.co.uk/

| As a walker, you above all should support the "live and let live" policy
| which may give us the right to roam. Green lanes are for all to enjoy and
| are vehicular rights of way.

It is not like that on Mastiles Lane which has been ruined by

|off roaders
| their 4x4's, trial bikes,

cars can not make it.


  #6 (permalink)  
Old November 3rd 03, 01:44 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Paul - xxx
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,042
Default Discovery Towbars

Dave Fawthrop tried to scribble ...

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:43:49 -0000, "Paul - xxx"
wrote:


We off-road extensively, as well as taking trailers full of
Motocross / Trials / Mountain bikes to wherever they need to go.
Although our towbar is a 'standard' LR one, it has never actually
been a problem, even in 'proper' trials. It does tend to plough a
bit, but we've never had a problem with it .. indeed the base plate
has a flat bottom to it, with a small kick-up that effectively
allows us to use the towbar as a 'gauge' as to how close we are to
wheelieing .. We don't (haven't yet anyway) use it off-road in a
rocky ground situation where a plough may not be good .. In the mud
and sandy areas we compete and green lane in it simply hasn't been a
problem at all.


As a walker who uses green lanes, I am appauled that you concider
"ploughing" up "Green Lanes" with your tow bar has not "actually been
a problem". Also that "wheelieing" on "Green Lanes" is in any way
acceptable.


As a walker who also uses green lanes, I am appalled that you think I ever
considered ploughing or wheelieing to be acceptable on green lanes.

If you actually read what I actually wrote you'll notice I specifically
mention 'proper' trials which are inevitably held on private land where
almost anything goes. Where I did mention green laning I said it hasn't
been a problem, what I should have said is that it simply hasn't ever
touched down or ploughed. The green lanes we use, and which we are
perfectly able, legally, to do so, are invariably taken at a very slow pace
with concern and consideration for others who use them.

You also appear to mis-understand what I mean by the ploughing effect of a
tow bar .. which is what occurs at the top or bottom of a very severe
incline or drop-off, when the available suspension doesn't have enough
travel to allow the rear of the vehicle to clear the horizontal ground. In
this scenario a tow-bar scoops out a small hole in the ground. It isn't a
'furrow' or trench by any means, and the longest plough hole I've seen is
about one metre ... This kind of severity just isn't found on _any_ green
lane I know .. and we've just come back from the Hard Knotts and Wrynose
passes in the Lake District where we also went green-laning on the severest
green lanes I know. I can assure you the tow-bar never ploughed anything
.....

It is hardly surprising that local authorities are closing green
lanes to 4x4 vandals such as yourself.


I agree, but perhaps you'll get more pleasure preaching elsewhere, or to
someone who does do what you think I do.

--
Digweed
....


  #7 (permalink)  
Old November 3rd 03, 02:46 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 870
Default OT: Green Lanes (was Discovery Towbars)

Dave Fawthrop wrote in
:

As a walker who uses green lanes, I am appauled that you concider
"ploughing" up "Green Lanes" with your tow bar has not "actually been
a problem". Also that "wheelieing" on "Green Lanes" is in any way
acceptable.

It is hardly surprising that local authorities are closing green lanes
to 4x4 vandals such as yourself.



Dave,

A towbar is only a "problem" where the departure angle really matters,
that is on entry to a steep uphill section or on leaving a steep
downhill one. With the towbar having a clearance of thirteen inches or
so, something else (e.g. a diff or steering box) usually gounds before
the towbar on level sections.

soapbox mode
Don't forget that green lanes are public roads, albeit unsurfaced roads
that may have been abandoned or neglected. Apparently there are around
140,000 miles of unsurfaced rights of way in UK but, while you can walk
every mile, you can drive only about 5% legally.

No matter what the Ramblers Association et al. would have you believe,
the tramp of thousands of boots have a much greater impact than the
occasional car. Like a dog-in-the-manger, the Ramblers Association
campaign to ban everyone except walkers from the countryside. BTW,
(http://www.ramblers.org.uk/news/greenlanes_edm.html), their "Devastated
Green Lanes" piece, shows a deeply rutted "green lane" with three (yes,
three) ruts along its length. Those ruts meet -- so 4x4s aren't the main
culprits; to do that needs bikes or (wait for it) walkers!

Is it too much to ask that walkers live and let live? If you don't want
to encounter the occasional vehicle, please use the 95% of rights of way
that are closed to vehicular traffic. You can get some more info at
http://www.juracid.demon.co.uk/greenlanes/index.html /soapbox mode

The Green Lanes Association (GLASS) organises regular Green Lanes Days
in which they repair roads, making them fit for everyone's use
(including walkers). Driving a road also keeps it open for everyone.
Were it not for vehicular traffic, many roads would quickly become
overgrown and unfit for anyone's use. Responsible driving of roads and
Green Lanes days provide maintenance that keeps roads open for everyone
and saves councils many thousands of pounds.

--
Geoff Lane
Cornwall, UK
  #8 (permalink)  
Old November 3rd 03, 02:47 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 870
Default Discovery Towbars

"Paul - xxx" wrote in
:

We off-road extensively, as well as taking trailers full of Motocross
/ Trials / Mountain bikes to wherever they need to go. Although our
towbar is a 'standard' LR one, it has never actually been a problem,
even in 'proper' trials.


Thanks for that. There being much granite near to where I live, I was a
little worried.

That said, I just noticed that Landrover Experience offer trailer courses.
I phoned them to find that they take their towbar-equipped vehicles over
worse terrain than I'll (hopefully) encounter, so perhaps I was worrying
over nothing.

Thanks again,

--
Geoff Lane
Cornwall, UK
  #9 (permalink)  
Old November 3rd 03, 02:47 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
NJF
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Discovery Towbars



Dave Fawthrop wroteamage is damage whether intentional or not.

http://www.ydgla.co.uk/

| As a walker, you above all should support the "live and let live" policy
| which may give us the right to roam. Green lanes are for all to enjoy and
| are vehicular rights of way.

It is not like that on Mastiles Lane which has been ruined by

|off roaders
| their 4x4's, trial bikes,

cars can not make it.


I would suggest you look at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3229731.stm
Wear by use includes human feet, shoe'd horses cut the surface far more than 4x4
tyres, and of course tractors....I suggest you also measure the ruts depth, then
look at the clearance under the average 4x4's axle, most deep ruts will cause the
4x4 to get stuck, the only thing that makes then that deep and can continue to
use the lane is a tractor, a solo motorcycle may also be able to pass, but often
the foot rests catch on the sides, which means most trail-riders won't use those
routes. There are enough sections of green lanes now barred to 4x4 users, even
lanes they have repaired, walkers however have many time more paths etc.
Another point to consider is that a lot of councils are taking the easy (and
cheap) way out an placing TRO's/downgrading routes as they don't want to maintain
what is a public road, properly maintained, with good drainage etc there's no
problem with 4x4 use, or horses, tractors etc.
4x4 users that want to play in mud etc have dedicated private sites, those of us
who lead Scouts etc and use 4x4's want the access kept useable, recovery of an
injured person by air isn't always an option and disabled access is another
reason for keeping them open to 4x4's, a friends wife cannot walk any distance
when her ME is playing up, and even the smoothest rural path is often impassable
with a wheel-chair, to get the fresh air and enjoyment of the countryside her
husbands 4x4 is the only way to go!
If you must side with the "environazis" I suggest you research the subject
properly and make a proper stand on any real issues you find, and please
remember: he who shouts loudest isn't always right....

Niel.

  #10 (permalink)  
Old November 3rd 03, 02:57 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
John Manders
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 95
Default Discovery Towbars


"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:34:15 -0000, "John Manders"
wrote:

| As a walker who uses green lanes, I am appauled that you concider
| "ploughing" up "Green Lanes" with your tow bar has not "actually been

a
| problem". Also that "wheelieing" on "Green Lanes" is in any way
| acceptable.
|
| It is hardly surprising that local authorities are closing green lanes

to
| 4x4 vandals such as yourself.
|
| --
| I suggest that you consider the term "ploughing" in the context in which

it
| was intended. The OP is obviously concerned about his tow bar digging

into
| the ground This is known as "ploughing" and is not done intentionally.

Damage is damage whether intentional or not.
http://www.ydgla.co.uk/

| As a walker, you above all should support the "live and let live" policy
| which may give us the right to roam. Green lanes are for all to enjoy

and
| are vehicular rights of way.

It is not like that on Mastiles Lane which has been ruined by

|off roaders
| their 4x4's, trial bikes,

cars can not make it.

Who mentioned damage?
I looked at the site you quoted and I saw an awful lot of space for the
walkers and very little for the vehicles. Off roaders have as much right to
enjoy the countryside as anyone else. I have walked along places where
horses have been and the result is mud enough to stop a Landrover. I have
also seen piles of litter left by walkers.
Why should one group of people have access to an area and deny it to others?
Lets let each other enjoy what we all have. I enjoy walking. I also enjoy
driving, cycling and motor biking in the same sort of areas. The one thing I
don't enjoy is horse riding. Tried it & failed so gave up. When I'm out
enjoying myself, I take pleasure from seeing others who are having fun as
well. I certainly would not support the aims of the group whose site you
posted. They seem to think that green lanes are for walkers and no one else.

John


 



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