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first (mini) trip completed - questions


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  #1 (permalink)  
Old January 6th 07, 06:49 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Stephen McNally
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Posts: 18
Default first (mini) trip completed - questions

Hi Folks
We've just returned from the first trip in our new van, and I reckon if
we can have a nice time in Glencoe on a very wet and cold January we can
have a nice time anywhere. We did two nights on site and one night wild
camping down Glen Etive. I was particularly impressed by the whole gas
system on our unplugged night. The heating was on from 3pm (only using
about quarter power overnight), we used the fridge, the hob, the oven
and the hot water heater and the gas bottle seemed to be just as full
this morning.
I have a couple of questions I'm sure all you experienced folk can answer.

There is a combined 12v/arial socket in the van where they expect you to
put a tv. Can I put a 12v plug on the end of an appliance intended for
the lighter socket and plug it into the wall socket?

The laptop we have was never designed for travelling and has poor
battery life (P4 desktop CPU). The kids wanted to watch a film when we
were wild camping and it only lasted about 40 mins. Is it possible to
power the laptop from the 12v system? Would it also be possible to use
it while travelling?

thanks in advance

stephen

--
http://www.pigtownfling.co.uk
email will bounce - try 'mail' instead
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old January 6th 07, 08:44 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Josiah Jenkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 200
Default first (mini) trip completed - questions

On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 18:49:25 +0000, I read these words from Stephen
McNally :

Hi Folks
We've just returned from the first trip in our new van, and I reckon if
we can have a nice time in Glencoe on a very wet and cold January we can
have a nice time anywhere. We did two nights on site and one night wild
camping down Glen Etive. I was particularly impressed by the whole gas
system on our unplugged night. The heating was on from 3pm (only using
about quarter power overnight), we used the fridge, the hob, the oven
and the hot water heater and the gas bottle seemed to be just as full
this morning.


Hope you missed the high winds that we had at Ecclefechan.

I have a couple of questions I'm sure all you experienced folk can answer.

There is a combined 12v/arial socket in the van where they expect you to
put a tv. Can I put a 12v plug on the end of an appliance intended for
the lighter socket and plug it into the wall socket?


If it doesn't take a 'normal' cigar lighter plug, it's likely to need
a 12v 'Hella' (or Volvo) plug as used on trucks.
Picture of one here on an e-Bay page : http://tinyurl.com/up7uo

The laptop we have was never designed for travelling and has poor
battery life (P4 desktop CPU). The kids wanted to watch a film when we
were wild camping and it only lasted about 40 mins. Is it possible to
power the laptop from the 12v system?


Yes, I've got a convertor for mine.
12v vehicle supply to 'smoothed' supply for laptop (IBM)
e-Bay again : http://tinyurl.com/y4b8bh

Would it also be possible to use it while travelling?


Suppose it would, I've never tried it.

-- jjj

  #3 (permalink)  
Old January 6th 07, 09:43 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Stephen McNally
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default first (mini) trip completed - questions

Josiah Jenkins wrote:
Hope you missed the high winds that we had at Ecclefechan.


Nope... We were on the Invercoe site on Friday night which is pretty
exposed. It was a bit disconcerting when the REALLY strong gusts turned
the roof into a giant Rolf Harris wobbleboard!! It was very loud but
amazingly the kids slept through it.

If it doesn't take a 'normal' cigar lighter plug, it's likely to need
a 12v 'Hella' (or Volvo) plug as used on trucks.
Picture of one here on an e-Bay page : http://tinyurl.com/up7uo


Slight misunderstanding I think. A car hoover designed to fit into the
cigarette lighter socket has too short a cable to reach the back of the
van. There is a 12v socket for a tv half way along the van. Can i just
cut off the lighter adapter and stick the appropriate 12v plug on the
end instead.

Yes, I've got a convertor for mine.
12v vehicle supply to 'smoothed' supply for laptop (IBM)
e-Bay again : http://tinyurl.com/y4b8bh


How much of a drain would that be on the car battery when the engine is
not on?

Another newbie question. What is the reason behind the legislation
requiring the 12v system to be disconnected when the engine is running?

thanks for the help

stephen
--
http://www.pigtownfling.co.uk
email will bounce - try 'mail' instead
  #4 (permalink)  
Old January 6th 07, 10:30 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Bob Douglas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 275
Default first (mini) trip completed - questions

"Stephen McNally" wrote in message
...
Josiah Jenkins wrote:
Hope you missed the high winds that we had at Ecclefechan.


Nope... We were on the Invercoe site on Friday night which is pretty
exposed. It was a bit disconcerting when the REALLY strong gusts turned
the roof into a giant Rolf Harris wobbleboard!! It was very loud but
amazingly the kids slept through it.

If it doesn't take a 'normal' cigar lighter plug, it's likely to need
a 12v 'Hella' (or Volvo) plug as used on trucks.
Picture of one here on an e-Bay page : http://tinyurl.com/up7uo


Slight misunderstanding I think. A car hoover designed to fit into the
cigarette lighter socket has too short a cable to reach the back of the
van. There is a 12v socket for a tv half way along the van. Can i just cut
off the lighter adapter and stick the appropriate 12v plug on the end
instead.

Yes, I've got a convertor for mine.
12v vehicle supply to 'smoothed' supply for laptop (IBM)
e-Bay again : http://tinyurl.com/y4b8bh


How much of a drain would that be on the car battery when the engine is
not on?

Another newbie question. What is the reason behind the legislation
requiring the 12v system to be disconnected when the engine is running?

thanks for the help

stephen
--
http://www.pigtownfling.co.uk
email will bounce - try 'mail' instead


The neatest thing to do is to get a converter from whichever socket type it
is to a cigar lighter socket. That way you can use *any* item with a cigar
lighter plug on without continuing to replace all the plugs, and still also
use them in the dash sockets. If it is a hella socket, Roadpro
(www.roadpro.co.uk) do a very neat piggy-back converter for not much cash,
otherwise they or most caravan accessory shops will do a plug to trailing
cigar lighter socket.

Most laptops would take in the order of 5amp max from a 12v supply via a
converter. Depending on the battery capacity (and other power use) I
certainly wouldn't rely on using it all night every night for long stays,
and if you're using with engine off, I'd recommend connecting to the leisure
battery, not the vehicle one!

I suspect your 'van is a British make. The isolation of the non-vehicle
electrics in motion is an (over-)response to EEC electromagnetic
interference legislation. In theory, all 'domestic' electric equipment needs
to have been declared free of any potential interference with the vehicle
systems (a safety related question when ABS etc. is involved). Rather than
go to the extent of ensuring that everything has been tested and documented
most British manufacturers take the simple step of disabling all domestic
electrics (other than the fridge), when the ignition is on, thereby ensuring
no interference. My last British 'van took this approach, my next two,
Spanish and French respectively, had all electrics enabled in all
circumstances!.

The isolation is normally accomplished via an ignition operated relay in the
domestic 12v circuit , which can easily be bypassed (entirely at your own
risk! - though some people would say using your mobile would be a greater
risk.).

--
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00
Antispam measures in force - remove nobumf from address to reply
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00


  #5 (permalink)  
Old January 6th 07, 11:36 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Josiah Jenkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 200
Default first (mini) trip completed - questions

On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:43:29 +0000, I read these words from Stephen
McNally :

Josiah Jenkins wrote:
Hope you missed the high winds that we had at Ecclefechan.


Nope... We were on the Invercoe site on Friday night which is pretty
exposed. It was a bit disconcerting when the REALLY strong gusts turned
the roof into a giant Rolf Harris wobbleboard!! It was very loud but
amazingly the kids slept through it.

If it doesn't take a 'normal' cigar lighter plug, it's likely to need
a 12v 'Hella' (or Volvo) plug as used on trucks.
Picture of one here on an e-Bay page : http://tinyurl.com/up7uo


Slight misunderstanding I think. A car hoover designed to fit into the
cigarette lighter socket has too short a cable to reach the back of the
van. There is a 12v socket for a tv half way along the van. Can i just
cut off the lighter adapter and stick the appropriate 12v plug on the
end instead.


Is it one of the type used by some UK caravan builders ?
Square shape, two flat prongs set at an angle ?
If so, yes.

Yes, I've got a convertor for mine.
12v vehicle supply to 'smoothed' supply for laptop (IBM)
e-Bay again : http://tinyurl.com/y4b8bh


How much of a drain would that be on the car battery when the engine is
not on?


I wired a seperate socket from the leisure batteries.

Another newbie question. What is the reason behind the legislation
requiring the 12v system to be disconnected when the engine is running?


Don't follow you.
AFAIK, there's no *legislation* as such.

The starter (engine) battery is generally only connected to the
fridge (sometimes leisure battery charging, it depends on the
vehicle) whilst engine is running and the alternator is putting
out current. Means you won't flatten it and get stuck !

You'll have a 12v supply from the leisure battery/batteries
for lights etc but *not* the fridge (there's usually a 12v supply
(constant) on modern fridges but it's only for the gas spark igniter).

-- jjj

  #6 (permalink)  
Old January 6th 07, 11:39 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Josiah Jenkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 200
Default first (mini) trip completed - questions

On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 22:30:44 -0000, I read these words from "Bob
Douglas" :

"Stephen McNally" wrote in message
...
Josiah Jenkins wrote:
Hope you missed the high winds that we had at Ecclefechan.


Nope... We were on the Invercoe site on Friday night which is pretty
exposed. It was a bit disconcerting when the REALLY strong gusts turned
the roof into a giant Rolf Harris wobbleboard!! It was very loud but
amazingly the kids slept through it.

If it doesn't take a 'normal' cigar lighter plug, it's likely to need
a 12v 'Hella' (or Volvo) plug as used on trucks.
Picture of one here on an e-Bay page : http://tinyurl.com/up7uo


Slight misunderstanding I think. A car hoover designed to fit into the
cigarette lighter socket has too short a cable to reach the back of the
van. There is a 12v socket for a tv half way along the van. Can i just cut
off the lighter adapter and stick the appropriate 12v plug on the end
instead.

Yes, I've got a convertor for mine.
12v vehicle supply to 'smoothed' supply for laptop (IBM)
e-Bay again : http://tinyurl.com/y4b8bh


How much of a drain would that be on the car battery when the engine is
not on?

Another newbie question. What is the reason behind the legislation
requiring the 12v system to be disconnected when the engine is running?

thanks for the help

stephen
--
http://www.pigtownfling.co.uk
email will bounce - try 'mail' instead


The neatest thing to do is to get a converter from whichever socket type it
is to a cigar lighter socket. That way you can use *any* item with a cigar
lighter plug on without continuing to replace all the plugs, and still also
use them in the dash sockets. If it is a hella socket, Roadpro
(www.roadpro.co.uk) do a very neat piggy-back converter for not much cash,
otherwise they or most caravan accessory shops will do a plug to trailing
cigar lighter socket.

Most laptops would take in the order of 5amp max from a 12v supply via a
converter. Depending on the battery capacity (and other power use) I
certainly wouldn't rely on using it all night every night for long stays,
and if you're using with engine off, I'd recommend connecting to the leisure
battery, not the vehicle one!

I suspect your 'van is a British make. The isolation of the non-vehicle
electrics in motion is an (over-)response to EEC electromagnetic
interference legislation. In theory, all 'domestic' electric equipment needs
to have been declared free of any potential interference with the vehicle
systems (a safety related question when ABS etc. is involved). Rather than
go to the extent of ensuring that everything has been tested and documented
most British manufacturers take the simple step of disabling all domestic
electrics (other than the fridge), when the ignition is on, thereby ensuring
no interference. My last British 'van took this approach, my next two,
Spanish and French respectively, had all electrics enabled in all
circumstances!.


Ah, didn't know that about UK vans, both mine have been German
which are presumably wired the same as yours.

-- jjj

The isolation is normally accomplished via an ignition operated relay in the
domestic 12v circuit , which can easily be bypassed (entirely at your own
risk! - though some people would say using your mobile would be a greater
risk.).


  #7 (permalink)  
Old January 7th 07, 01:59 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
RustYŠ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 177
Default first (mini) trip completed - questions


"Josiah Jenkins" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:43:29 +0000, I read these words from Stephen
McNally :

Another newbie question. What is the reason behind the legislation
requiring the 12v system to be disconnected when the engine is running?


Don't follow you.
AFAIK, there's no *legislation* as such.


All motor vehicles now may only be sold if fitted with type approved
electrical products. As motorhome fitters often wish to fit unapproved
lights, sockets etc. they ensure that when the vehicle is being used as a
motor vehicle, all their unapproved electrics are isolated. The reason for
this ruling is to prevent any possible interference with vehicles computers,
brake controllers etc. (The fridges used are type approved and so may be
left running).


  #8 (permalink)  
Old January 7th 07, 03:53 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Josiah Jenkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 200
Default first (mini) trip completed - questions

On Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:59:06 GMT, I read these words from "RustYŠ"
:


"Josiah Jenkins" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:43:29 +0000, I read these words from Stephen
McNally :

Another newbie question. What is the reason behind the legislation
requiring the 12v system to be disconnected when the engine is running?


Don't follow you.
AFAIK, there's no *legislation* as such.


All motor vehicles now may only be sold if fitted with type approved
electrical products.


Albeit what you're saying is probably true, your response is not
directly related to the question, is it ?
(I'm only saying 'probably' because you're not citing a source)

As motorhome fitters often wish to fit unapproved lights, sockets etc.
they ensure that when the vehicle is being used as a motor vehicle,
all their unapproved electrics are isolated.


In other words, rather than using components which meet with
existing standards of legislation, UK (?) manufacturers wire their
products in such a way that ensures that the non-approved items
are just disconnected ?

In some ways it's similar to the 'reverse polarity' problem.

The solution is available but it costs more money !

The reason for this ruling is to prevent any possible interference
with vehicles computers, brake controllers etc.


Possibly the,
European Directive 95/54/EC on electromagnetic compatibility ?
"This requires cars to have a minimum level of immunity to
interference such that electronic devices, including mobile phones,
do not cause malfunctions of the vehicle's electronics."

-- jjj

(The fridges used are type approved and so may be left running).




  #9 (permalink)  
Old January 7th 07, 11:46 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
JayDee[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default first (mini) trip completed - questions

Another place that can supply you with the means to power your computer
in the MH is Action Replay - http://www.action-replay.co.uk.
It is switchable for different voltages and comes with a selection of
plugs to go into the laptop, which cennect to a two pin plug and socket
affair thus allowing the computer jack to be correctly polarised.
The other thing I did was connect the laptop's line out to the MP3
input on the car radio, giving me another source of music and the
ability to watch a DVD on the laptop with decent sound throught the car
stereo. Works a treat:-). We don't take TV with us when we go away -
seen too many people sitting glued to the TV instead of enjoying the
great outdoors, which is what we go away for after all (or am I being a
grumpy OF?)

JayDee


Josiah Jenkins wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:59:06 GMT, I read these words from "RustYŠ"
:


"Josiah Jenkins" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:43:29 +0000, I read these words from Stephen
McNally :

Another newbie question. What is the reason behind the legislation
requiring the 12v system to be disconnected when the engine is running?

Don't follow you.
AFAIK, there's no *legislation* as such.


All motor vehicles now may only be sold if fitted with type approved
electrical products.


Albeit what you're saying is probably true, your response is not
directly related to the question, is it ?
(I'm only saying 'probably' because you're not citing a source)

As motorhome fitters often wish to fit unapproved lights, sockets etc.
they ensure that when the vehicle is being used as a motor vehicle,
all their unapproved electrics are isolated.


In other words, rather than using components which meet with
existing standards of legislation, UK (?) manufacturers wire their
products in such a way that ensures that the non-approved items
are just disconnected ?

In some ways it's similar to the 'reverse polarity' problem.

The solution is available but it costs more money !

The reason for this ruling is to prevent any possible interference
with vehicles computers, brake controllers etc.


Possibly the,
European Directive 95/54/EC on electromagnetic compatibility ?
"This requires cars to have a minimum level of immunity to
interference such that electronic devices, including mobile phones,
do not cause malfunctions of the vehicle's electronics."

-- jjj

(The fridges used are type approved and so may be left running).


 


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