A Caravan forum. Caravan Banter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » Caravan Banter forum » Caravan, Motor Homes and Camping Newsgroups » UK Motor Caravans
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

UK Motor Caravans (uk.rec.motorcaravans)

French law - Children in Front Seats


« - | - »

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old January 8th 07, 12:24 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Max
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27
Default French law - Children in Front Seats

I'm planning my first trip to France in May and am concerned regarding
French child-seat laws. The Motorhome is a 16-year old coachbuilt with
3-point seatbelts in the front and forward facing seats with lap-belts
in the rear (no 3-point retro-fit option in the rear) . The youngest
child is 4 years old and uses a proper high-back childseat in the front
of the van as this requires a 3-point fixing. Unfortunately French law
appears to state no child under 10 years in the front. In my situation
the front is the safest not only because it is the only place to fit
the high-back childseat but also because there is sufficient scientific
evidence that lap-belts are unsuitable and can cause young children
serious injury.

So.. given that my situation cannot be unique what are other people's
experiences of French Police / law when carrying a young child
suitably restrained in the front?

Thank you,
Steve

Ads
  #2 (permalink)  
Old January 12th 07, 09:34 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
wanadoo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default French law - Children in Front Seats

Hello,

Article R412-3 of the french highway code stats that children under 10 years
are banned from front seats except :

When the rear seats are not fitted with seat-belts or when they are occupied
by other children under 10 years.
The highway code also states that seat-belts for children must have three
fixing points.

So you should have no problems. Print out this page before you go.
http://www.code-route.com/passager_voiture.htm


"Max" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
I'm planning my first trip to France in May and am concerned regarding
French child-seat laws. The Motorhome is a 16-year old coachbuilt with
3-point seatbelts in the front and forward facing seats with lap-belts
in the rear (no 3-point retro-fit option in the rear) . The youngest
child is 4 years old and uses a proper high-back childseat in the front
of the van as this requires a 3-point fixing. Unfortunately French law
appears to state no child under 10 years in the front. In my situation
the front is the safest not only because it is the only place to fit
the high-back childseat but also because there is sufficient scientific
evidence that lap-belts are unsuitable and can cause young children
serious injury.

So.. given that my situation cannot be unique what are other people's
experiences of French Police / law when carrying a young child
suitably restrained in the front?

Thank you,
Steve



  #3 (permalink)  
Old January 12th 07, 09:12 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Max
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27
Default French law - Children in Front Seats


wanadoo wrote:
Hello,

Article R412-3 of the french highway code stats that children under 10 years
are banned from front seats except :

When the rear seats are not fitted with seat-belts or when they are occupied
by other children under 10 years.
The highway code also states that seat-belts for children must have three
fixing points.

So you should have no problems. Print out this page before you go.
http://www.code-route.com/passager_voiture.htm


That's excellent news. Thank you for pointing this out, much
appreciated.

Steve

  #4 (permalink)  
Old January 13th 07, 10:53 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
GoNads
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default French law - Children in Front Seats

On 8 Jan 2007 04:24:01 -0800, "Max" wrote:

I'm planning my first trip to France in May and am concerned regarding
French child-seat laws. The Motorhome is a 16-year old coachbuilt with
3-point seatbelts in the front and forward facing seats with lap-belts
in the rear (no 3-point retro-fit option in the rear) . The youngest
child is 4 years old and uses a proper high-back childseat in the front
of the van as this requires a 3-point fixing. Unfortunately French law
appears to state no child under 10 years in the front. In my situation
the front is the safest not only because it is the only place to fit
the high-back childseat but also because there is sufficient scientific
evidence that lap-belts are unsuitable and can cause young children
serious injury.

So.. given that my situation cannot be unique what are other people's
experiences of French Police / law when carrying a young child
suitably restrained in the front?

Thank you,
Steve



The law in this case is irrelevant as the Motorcaravan is fully legal
in one country then it is fully legal in all EU states.
Therefore if the Motorcaravan complies with all UK Road laws re
seatbelts (and it does) then any French law would be irrelevant


--
Email:go-nadsAThotmailDOTcoDOTuk


  #5 (permalink)  
Old January 13th 07, 01:08 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
wanadoo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default French law - Children in Front Seats


"GoNads" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
On 8 Jan 2007 04:24:01 -0800, "Max" wrote:

I'm planning my first trip to France in May and am concerned regarding
French child-seat laws. The Motorhome is a 16-year old coachbuilt with
3-point seatbelts in the front and forward facing seats with lap-belts
in the rear (no 3-point retro-fit option in the rear) . The youngest
child is 4 years old and uses a proper high-back childseat in the front
of the van as this requires a 3-point fixing. Unfortunately French law
appears to state no child under 10 years in the front. In my situation
the front is the safest not only because it is the only place to fit
the high-back childseat but also because there is sufficient scientific
evidence that lap-belts are unsuitable and can cause young children
serious injury.

So.. given that my situation cannot be unique what are other people's
experiences of French Police / law when carrying a young child
suitably restrained in the front?

Thank you,
Steve



The law in this case is irrelevant as the Motorcaravan is fully legal
in one country then it is fully legal in all EU states.
Therefore if the Motorcaravan complies with all UK Road laws re
seatbelts (and it does) then any French law would be irrelevant


--
Email:go-nadsAThotmailDOTcoDOTuk

I'd love to be watching the day you tell that to the gendarmes.



  #6 (permalink)  
Old January 13th 07, 05:19 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
GoNads
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default French law - Children in Front Seats

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 14:08:10 +0100, "wanadoo"
wrote:


I'd love to be watching the day you tell that to the gendarmes.


Well you wont as I have lap belts on my rear seats but what I quoted
is the law.

Its illegal for a Frenchman to drive a vehicle over 3.5 tons in France
without a special licence but I can drive a 7.5 tonne vehicle over
there and have done many many times, been stopped, had my licence
checked, and was sent on my way.



--
Email:go-nadsAThotmailDOTcoDOTuk


  #7 (permalink)  
Old January 15th 07, 12:28 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Max
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27
Default French law - Children in Front Seats


GoNads wrote:
On 8 Jan 2007 04:24:01 -0800, "Max" wrote:


The law in this case is irrelevant as the Motorcaravan is fully legal
in one country then it is fully legal in all EU states.
Therefore if the Motorcaravan complies with all UK Road laws re
seatbelts (and it does) then any French law would be irrelevant



Thanks for the comments but the point was not that the Motorhome would
be legal (it IS as you say), but rather the seating of a 4yr old child
in the front which appears not to be.

The van has 3-point belts in the front and lap belts in the rear. The
child seat requires a 3-point fixing. French law states the child is to
be restrained by a purpose-built seat seat or by a 3-point seatbelt
(one assumes if they are on a booster cushion only). This is therefore
in the front seat in my case. However, French law also states no child
under 10 in the front. So, there is the potential for interpreting this
as conflicting laws.

I shall put the child in their child seat in the front and plead the
case to the French police if necessary that they (the child) require a
purpose-built child seat and the child seat can only be fitted in the
front of this vehicle due to the 3-point fixing required.

Regards.

  #8 (permalink)  
Old January 16th 07, 09:27 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
ticktock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 116
Default French law - Children in Front Seats


Max wrote:

The van has 3-point belts in the front and lap belts in the rear. The
child seat requires a 3-point fixing. French law states the child is to
be restrained by a purpose-built seat seat or by a 3-point seatbelt
(one assumes if they are on a booster cushion only). This is therefore
in the front seat in my case. However, French law also states no child
under 10 in the front. So, there is the potential for interpreting this
as conflicting laws.



My understanding of the way it is interpreted in France (only my
understanding of course ... I haven't tested this through the legal
system) is similar to what has been said by others in separate replies,
but which can be aggragated as ......

1: Children of any age should be in the rear
2: A small child should be in an 'approved' child seat
3: Child seat should be 3 point fastening
only if the above are not feasible/practicable (because seats are
otherwise occupied or can't be made to restrain the child safely [as in
no manufacturers approved method/facility to secure child seat
correctly), may a child be carried in the front seats, and then they
must be restrained in a manner that fits their physical size (i.e.
child seat).

Given that your van does not have a 3 point facility to secure the
child seat to the rear seats then you are OK to fit the child seat to
the front. (The child's safety is after all the driver for the rules...
and it is safer to have then in a secure seat designed for their size
than to have them insecurely restrained but in the rear.)

I would ensure I take a laminated card with me that states/explains, in
French (and the native language of wherever else you are travelling),
that the rear seats do not have the required manufacturers approved
fixing points but the front seat does. Then be prepared to display the
card to anyone that enquires. But to be honest, I doubt very much
that the French will bother you provided it is clear that you are using
a properly fitted child restraint. They are human after all, and the
gendarmes have far more important things to concern themselves with.
Now the town Polizei are a different matter
;-)


Ian

  #9 (permalink)  
Old January 17th 07, 08:25 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Max
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27
Default French law - Children in Front Seats


ticktock wrote:
Max wrote:

snip

I would ensure I take a laminated card with me that states/explains, in
French (and the native language of wherever else you are travelling),
that the rear seats do not have the required manufacturers approved
fixing points but the front seat does. Then be prepared to display the
card to anyone that enquires. But to be honest, I doubt very much
that the French will bother you provided it is clear that you are using
a properly fitted child restraint. They are human after all, and the
gendarmes have far more important things to concern themselves with.
Now the town Polizei are a different matter
;-)


Thanks for the comments Ian. That's a good idea (the card). I'll have
to type it in English then run it through a translator which might
prove amusing for the gendarmes.

Ref the final sentence... Is there an issue with the Polizei being
over-zealous or do they just dislike tourists?

Best wishes,
Steve

  #10 (permalink)  
Old January 18th 07, 11:26 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
ticktock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 116
Default French law - Children in Front Seats


Max wrote:



Thanks for the comments Ian. That's a good idea (the card). I'll have
to type it in English then run it through a translator which might
prove amusing for the gendarmes.

Ref the final sentence... Is there an issue with the Polizei being
over-zealous or do they just dislike tourists?

Best wishes,
Steve



No Steve, ... it was only my pathetic attempt at a bit of humour (it
failed miserably).

In all the years of touring we have never had any problems with the
Police (of any description).

We were followed into the Euro-city Mall at Calais 3 years ago and
interviewed by 3 motorcycle Gendarmes .. but they were more interested
in learning about our RV (and just giving it a 'check-over') than in
anything else. (Must have been a quiet day for them).
About 4 or 5 years ago we had a German Patrol-car pull alongside on the
autobahn and give us a blast of his siren. I thought 'ooops' (or
somethign similar beginning with 'eff'), but then the co-driver leant
out of his window gave us a wave and a thumbs up, and accelerated away.


No, I have not found the Police anywhere in Europe to be a problem. As
everywhere else... watch your speed and don't do anything crass and you
should never see them.

Ian

 


« - | - »

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC6
Copyright ©2004-2019 Caravan Banter.
The comments are property of their posters.