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Slightly Off Topic - Petition against Road Use Mileage Charging


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  #1 (permalink)  
Old February 7th 07, 11:17 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
ticktock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 116
Default Slightly Off Topic - Petition against Road Use Mileage Charging

Sorry Folks... but my blood is near boiling point and some of my
personal feelings may come across in this post.

I also apologise up front for introducing something akin to politics
into our pleasant group... but in this instance I think it is
appropriate. (It's not directly Political... but you might get a hint
from this that I am not an advocate of left-wing, anti-vehicle, high-
taxation, control-freak governments, ... and if that comes across too
strongly then I apologise). Further if you don't agree that this is
somethign that could have a large impact on we-who-take-to-the-roads-
for-leisure, then please accept my apologies and simply ignore this
(possibly in the [forlorn] hope that it's message might just die
quietly and not resurface).


Nevertheless, as written, I hope that you will feel that it is perhaps
'justified' and even possibly excusable to introduce such a tawdry
subject as (yeuch) taxation into our discussions.


I was sent the following link earlier today.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/


It appears (as if we didn't suspect such already) that Downing Street
is considering introducing "Pay by the Mile" satellite tracking and
automated billing for roads use.
I had heard such before but had dismissed it as perhaps being just so
much 'pie in the sky' (or should that be 'Nanny-State-Spy in the
Sky'). However, it appears that this latest attack on 'we motorists'
is considerably more advanced than I, for one, had envisaged. It
seems that serious consideration is being put into legislating this
sooner rather than later.

In order to rally a show of condemnation that even the thickest-
skinned 'politico' would find it hard to ignore; ..there is a petition
being run on the 10 Downing Street website to try and bring home to
our 'Leaders' (hah ! ... sorry ... my finger slipped for a moment and
I forgot how to spell 'Losers' .... oops ... see I told you my
Political Slip my show for a moment...) that there are a growing army
of voters out here who actually own cars and other vehicles and are
more than a little sick of being constantly targeted as :-

1) a soft touch for ever new methods of indirect taxation to fund the
misspending in support of our UK government's failures both here and
overseas, and..
2) being used as the scapegoat for all the alleged ills of this
planet.

If you are as sick and tired of this continual assault on we drivers
as I am .. then please go and sign the Petition, there are already
more than 700,000 of 'us' ... lets spread the word as far as possible
to friends relatives work colleagues, and see if we can get above a
Million signatures. But we need to be quick as the petition closes
in a couple of weeks. Whilst there take a look for the one about
about the treasury/revenue plan to force canal boats to buy the more
heavily taxed Road-fuel Deisel rather than the red diesel they have
traditionally been allowed to use.

To paraphrase the esteemed Lord Wogan of BBC .... "Is it just me?"
that feels as if this government believes that I and my motorhome are
more 'enemies of the State' than the ' the citizens that they are
supposed to be working for"?


I apologise for the tone and length of this, but please spread the
word .. go and sign the petition and lets send a message that even
those in their Ivory Towers wont be able to ignore.

You fill in your email address and your postcode... you will receive
an acknowledgement from Downing Street... click on the acknowledgement
email and your signature will be recorded.

The url again is :
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/


Happy Touring (whilst we are able ot afford it)

Ian

Ads
  #2 (permalink)  
Old February 8th 07, 09:44 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
:Jerry:
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 71
Default Slightly Off Topic - Petition against Road Use Mileage Charging


"ticktock" wrote in message
ups.com...
snip

I was sent the following link earlier today.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/


Oh wow, another worthless petition, if you want to do something, write
your *own* letter / email, outlining why *you* consider such proposals
unfair and send it to your *own* MP or to the DfT rather that using
either web petitions or 'Round Robin' type circular letters.
Individual letters work, round robin letters / petitions don't.

The problem, for me at least, is not making certain roads into toll
roads but how they want to do it, it's no accident that they not only
want a national ID card but now want to track peoples movements (and
don't think that using public transport will stop you from being
tracked come compulsory ID/travel cards) - Orwell just got the date
wrong...

Sorry for my first post to this group being in such a contentious
thread!


  #3 (permalink)  
Old February 8th 07, 11:25 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 870
Default Slightly Off Topic - Petition against Road Use Mileage Charging

Alex Shaw wrote in :

Pricing according to usage is also a general policy - I am charged for
my gas and electricity according to how much I use - so I do not see
the problem.


We're already charged for usage - it's called fuel tax. So I have to ask
why the government feel the need to introduce a system with huge civil
liberty issues, so much potential for error, and that will waste massive
amounts of yours and my money to set up, administer, and maintain.

Road pricing is equivalent to you paying different rates for your gas and
electricity depending on which appliance you used, what you used it for,
what time of day you used it, and not knowing the price until the bill
dropped on your doormat. Oh, that and having all your appliances spying on
you and reporting to the government each and every time you used them.

--
Geoff
  #4 (permalink)  
Old February 8th 07, 11:51 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
news
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Slightly Off Topic - Petition against Road Use Mileage Charging

I don't see this as being off-topic at all and I agree with everything said
in the original post - I have signed the petition and have also made my
feelings known to my MP who strongly agrees with me - so you've probably
guessed he currently sits on the opposition benches (something I will be
doing my damnest to change at the next election!)

The great British public is getting more and more fed up with the constant
milking of the easy target, especially the motorist. The decriminalisation
of speeding, parking, etc has meant that there is now no reasonable
judgement made of the facts of each case by independent judiciary*, you
either pay up or they send the bailliffs in, so 'decriminalisation' has
simply meant you are guilty and are not given a fair chance to prove
otherwise.

So for example, the couple who parked in Penrith in a car park where none of
the spaces were big enough for their motorcaravan so they parked in one of
the many empty coach parking spaces - despite the coach parking being free
they did the decent thing and paid as if they'd occupied a car parking space
and guess what? They got a Penalty Notice and their appeals have fallen on
deaf ears so they have had to stump up. That's not what I'd call natural
justice.

I believe the backlash has started with the widely publicised incidents over
the past few days. I do not under any circumstances condone violence, but I
believe that the frustrations will spill over and unfortunately this current
administration have shown scant disregard for the judiciary, for parliament,
for the public and for many aspects of the heritage and fairness of how
things have perviously been done in this country for many years.

Rant over!

Roger

* (please don't anyone suggest that the Parking Adjudication Service is in
any way independent . . .)


  #5 (permalink)  
Old February 8th 07, 12:16 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
:Jerry:
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 71
Default Slightly Off Topic - Petition against Road Use Mileage Charging


"news" wrote in message
...
snip

So for example, the couple who parked in Penrith in a car park where
none of the spaces were big enough for their motorcaravan so they
parked in one of the many empty coach parking spaces - despite the
coach parking being free they did the decent thing and paid as if
they'd occupied a car parking space and guess what? They got a
Penalty Notice and their appeals have fallen on deaf ears so they
have had to stump up. That's not what I'd call natural justice.


It would be interesting to know what they should have done. I can see
why they got a penalty notice for parking in a space meant for
coaches - they go off for the day (or what ever) and then a load of
coaches turn up, what does the coach driver do now (s)he can't use the
designated space - perhaps the motorcaravan owners should have parked
in the normal car park, overlapping spaces and paid two / four parking
fees - but then they would probably have still got a Penalty Notice
from an unthinking 'Jobs Worth'! :~(


  #6 (permalink)  
Old February 8th 07, 03:09 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
news
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Slightly Off Topic - Petition against Road Use Mileage Charging


":Jerry:" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"news" wrote in message
...
snip

So for example, the couple who parked in Penrith in a car park where none
of the spaces were big enough for their motorcaravan so they parked in
one of the many empty coach parking spaces - despite the coach parking
being free they did the decent thing and paid as if they'd occupied a car
parking space and guess what? They got a Penalty Notice and their
appeals have fallen on deaf ears so they have had to stump up. That's
not what I'd call natural justice.


It would be interesting to know what they should have done. I can see why
they got a penalty notice for parking in a space meant for coaches - they
go off for the day (or what ever) and then a load of coaches turn up, what
does the coach driver do now (s)he can't use the designated space -
perhaps the motorcaravan owners should have parked in the normal car park,
overlapping spaces and paid two / four parking fees - but then they would
probably have still got a Penalty Notice from an unthinking 'Jobs Worth'!
:~(


The relevant Parking Order states that not parking within the lines is an
offence - two seperate enquiries to the council regarding their policy on
this ( i.e. if you overlap two spaces and pay for two tickets) have resulted
in two different answers from the same authority! And a FoI request has
indicated that numerous tickets have been issued over the last three years
for the offence of parking over the lines. Representations have been made
to them to provide suitable parking for larger vehicles such as
motorcaravans but nothing positive has been heard - so the message seems to
be: spend your money somewhere else where you are made welcome, not in
Penrith or other areas in Cumbria run by Eden District Council . . .

Roger


  #7 (permalink)  
Old February 8th 07, 03:38 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
ticktock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 116
Default Slightly Off Topic - Petition against Road Use Mileage Charging


:Jerry: wrote:
"ticktock" wrote in message
ups.com...
snip

I was sent the following link earlier today.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/


Oh wow, another worthless petition,


Well... I'm afraid that more than 800,000 (and that's only those who
care unlike yourself who see petitions as 'worthless') don't agree
with you.

if you want to do something, write
your *own* letter / email, outlining why *you* consider such proposals
unfair and send it to your *own* MP or to the DfT rather that using
either web petitions or 'Round Robin' type circular letters.


I don't think you undertsand the meaning of the term 'Round Robin'..
my post was nowhere near such.
It was a single post to a single source.. this group; ... and yes...
but for the sake of accuracy I will tell you (although I didn't
intend to) that I have already put my comments, views and constructive
suggestions in writing to the Prime Minster directly (and 'yes' .. I
am grown up enough to use my own words... )




The problem, for me at least, is not making certain roads into toll
roads but how they want to do it, it's no accident that they not only
want a national ID card but now want to track peoples movements (and
don't think that using public transport will stop you from being
tracked come compulsory ID/travel cards) - Orwell just got the date
wrong...


PARDON ??... what ?? ehhhhh?????
Excuse me, nobody apart from you has introduced paranoia into this
discussion. I don't agree with the Nanny-state, centralised-control-
freak mentally of the socialists ... but that doesn't mean I support
'X-file paranoia' mentally instead.
I'm afraid that, for me at least, you just lost any, and all,
credibility with this Orwellian claim.


Sorry for my first post to this group being in such a contentious
thread!


That's alright we'll forgive you for being contentious.

  #8 (permalink)  
Old February 8th 07, 03:53 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
ticktock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 116
Default Slightly Off Topic - Petition against Road Use Mileage Charging


You are a bit late. It is already in operation in central London and cameras at
various locations throughout the country have software that makes them able to
read and record registration numbers.


Sorry, but that is not the same thing at all. The congestion charging
is not 'in place off' the proposed new charges, it will be
suplementary. The congestion monitoring is 'Video Assisted
Monitoring', that is not continual vehicle tracking.

Pricing according to usage is also a general policy - I am charged for my gas
and electricity according to how much I use - so I do not see the problem.


Then can I suggest that you think about it somemore... here are some
pointers...

1: You do not pay separate Bills to Transco for the pipeline your
household gas arrives along. Would you still say that you don't get
the point if Transco successfully petitioned to charge consumers
directly for the infrastructure (even though we already pay for it as
a component of our Gas Bill) and your costs overnight were doubled.
Exactly the same with electricity, since deregulation you have been at
liberty to have your supply from anyone, but would you be so content
if every component part of the infrastrustre of distribution was
charged to your account. No, I do not believe you would. So as
written, may I respoectfully suggest that you do consider what the
problem is.

2: V.A.M. is not able to tell the route you have taken between points
and automatically calculate your average speed. Would you be so
complacent I wonder if (once this legislation arrives) you receive an
automatic summons for speeding, along with your monthly Bill for road
use, simply because you slipped above the speed limit for a mile or
two (Please don't tell me that you never speed .. if you have ever
driven a vehicle, then neither I nor anyone else will ever believe
you.)

Regards,
Ian

  #9 (permalink)  
Old February 8th 07, 04:09 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
:Jerry:
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 71
Default Slightly Off Topic - Petition against Road Use Mileage Charging


"ticktock" wrote in message
oups.com...

:Jerry: wrote:
"ticktock" wrote in message
ups.com...
snip

I was sent the following link earlier today.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/


Oh wow, another worthless petition,


Well... I'm afraid that more than 800,000 (and that's only those who
care unlike yourself who see petitions as 'worthless') don't agree
with you.


I think you mean, 800,000 people have filled in a digital petition,
now please inform us all how many digital petitions have changed HMG
thinking...


if you want to do something, write
your *own* letter / email, outlining why *you* consider such
proposals
unfair and send it to your *own* MP or to the DfT rather that using
either web petitions or 'Round Robin' type circular letters.


I don't think you undertsand the meaning of the term 'Round Robin'..
my post was nowhere near such.


I don't think you know the meaning of the word 'OR', I was not saying
that your message was a Round Robin type letter, but you did admit
that you were passing on a link that you had received...

It was a single post to a single source.. this group; ... and yes...
but for the sake of accuracy I will tell you (although I didn't
intend to) that I have already put my comments, views and
constructive
suggestions in writing to the Prime Minster directly (and 'yes' .. I
am grown up enough to use my own words... )


You really think that Mr Blair will read it, not quite the same as
writing to your own MP (unless Mr Blair is your MP of course, but then
you would be writing to him, as a MP not PM) is it?...




The problem, for me at least, is not making certain roads into toll
roads but how they want to do it, it's no accident that they not
only
want a national ID card but now want to track peoples movements
(and
don't think that using public transport will stop you from being
tracked come compulsory ID/travel cards) - Orwell just got the date
wrong...


PARDON ??... what ?? ehhhhh?????
Excuse me, nobody apart from you has introduced paranoia into this
discussion. I don't agree with the Nanny-state,
centralised-control-
freak mentally of the socialists ... but that doesn't mean I support
'X-file paranoia' mentally instead.
I'm afraid that, for me at least, you just lost any, and all,
credibility with this Orwellian claim.


So, for all your blustering stupidity you miss the one and only reason
to object to having a tracking device in your car, there is nothing
wrong with road tolls, but there is plainly wrong with the state
tracking your vehicular movements!


Sorry for my first post to this group being in such a contentious
thread!


That's alright we'll forgive you for being contentious.


That's OK then, as I forgive your naivety!...


  #10 (permalink)  
Old February 8th 07, 08:15 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
The Rifleman[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Slightly Off Topic - Petition against Road Use Mileage Charging

I intend to go from being good to being top notch at navigating using B
roads whenever possible to avoid getting stung.
"ticktock" wrote in message
ups.com...
Sorry Folks... but my blood is near boiling point and some of my
personal feelings may come across in this post.

I also apologise up front for introducing something akin to politics
into our pleasant group... but in this instance I think it is
appropriate. (It's not directly Political... but you might get a hint
from this that I am not an advocate of left-wing, anti-vehicle, high-
taxation, control-freak governments, ... and if that comes across too
strongly then I apologise). Further if you don't agree that this is
somethign that could have a large impact on we-who-take-to-the-roads-
for-leisure, then please accept my apologies and simply ignore this
(possibly in the [forlorn] hope that it's message might just die
quietly and not resurface).


Nevertheless, as written, I hope that you will feel that it is perhaps
'justified' and even possibly excusable to introduce such a tawdry
subject as (yeuch) taxation into our discussions.


I was sent the following link earlier today.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/


It appears (as if we didn't suspect such already) that Downing Street
is considering introducing "Pay by the Mile" satellite tracking and
automated billing for roads use.
I had heard such before but had dismissed it as perhaps being just so
much 'pie in the sky' (or should that be 'Nanny-State-Spy in the
Sky'). However, it appears that this latest attack on 'we motorists'
is considerably more advanced than I, for one, had envisaged. It
seems that serious consideration is being put into legislating this
sooner rather than later.

In order to rally a show of condemnation that even the thickest-
skinned 'politico' would find it hard to ignore; ..there is a petition
being run on the 10 Downing Street website to try and bring home to
our 'Leaders' (hah ! ... sorry ... my finger slipped for a moment and
I forgot how to spell 'Losers' .... oops ... see I told you my
Political Slip my show for a moment...) that there are a growing army
of voters out here who actually own cars and other vehicles and are
more than a little sick of being constantly targeted as :-

1) a soft touch for ever new methods of indirect taxation to fund the
misspending in support of our UK government's failures both here and
overseas, and..
2) being used as the scapegoat for all the alleged ills of this
planet.

If you are as sick and tired of this continual assault on we drivers
as I am .. then please go and sign the Petition, there are already
more than 700,000 of 'us' ... lets spread the word as far as possible
to friends relatives work colleagues, and see if we can get above a
Million signatures. But we need to be quick as the petition closes
in a couple of weeks. Whilst there take a look for the one about
about the treasury/revenue plan to force canal boats to buy the more
heavily taxed Road-fuel Deisel rather than the red diesel they have
traditionally been allowed to use.

To paraphrase the esteemed Lord Wogan of BBC .... "Is it just me?"
that feels as if this government believes that I and my motorhome are
more 'enemies of the State' than the ' the citizens that they are
supposed to be working for"?


I apologise for the tone and length of this, but please spread the
word .. go and sign the petition and lets send a message that even
those in their Ivory Towers wont be able to ignore.

You fill in your email address and your postcode... you will receive
an acknowledgement from Downing Street... click on the acknowledgement
email and your signature will be recorded.

The url again is :
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/


Happy Touring (whilst we are able ot afford it)

Ian



 


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