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Does motorcaravanning save money?



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old February 27th 07, 02:16 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
divoch
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Posts: 55
Default Does motorcaravanning save money?

Before deciding whether to buy a motorhome I would like to compare fairly a
likely yearly cost of travelling around Europe in a new or nearly new
compact motorhome (for 2 people, with WC) or travelling with a car and
staying in B/B or other low/mid cost accommodation. This is our dilemma and
I wonder if anyone has done anything like that before ?

The assumptions are that we would travel abroad for say 3 months in a year
(2x 1.5 months in spring and late summer) and in summer we would spend a
few extended weekends away in UK. Cooking for ourselves except perhaps twice
a week going out for a meal. We would not use motorhome for any extended
trips in winter.

The motorhoming costs should include
/yearly depreciation costs,
/yearly maintenance costs
/insurance
/club membership costs
/campsite costs ( what should one allow for one night on average assuming
never wild camping?)
/gas and electricity costs
/food
/what else?

The motorhoming yearly cost calculation should not include cost of buying a
motorhome, only running costs and depreciation, and it should not include
cost of fuel - as I am making a simplified assumption that the difference
in consumption will not be that significant for the purpose of rough
calculations.

Could anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks

Divoch


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old February 27th 07, 04:14 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Josiah Jenkins
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Posts: 200
Default Does motorcaravanning save money?

Whilst perusing Usenet on Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:16:13 GMT, I read these
words from "divoch" :

Before deciding whether to buy a motorhome I would like to compare fairly a
likely yearly cost of travelling around Europe in a new or nearly new
compact motorhome (for 2 people, with WC) or travelling with a car and
staying in B/B or other low/mid cost accommodation. This is our dilemma and
I wonder if anyone has done anything like that before ?


If you're not going to use it all year round, have you considered
*renting* a motorhome in Europe for your six week holidays ?

Google gives : about 197,000 hits for germany + motorhome rental.

-- jjj
  #3 (permalink)  
Old February 27th 07, 07:23 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
divoch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default Does motorcaravanning save money?


"Josiah Jenkins" wrote in message
news
Whilst perusing Usenet on Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:16:13 GMT, I read these
words from "divoch" :

Before deciding whether to buy a motorhome I would like to compare fairly
a
likely yearly cost of travelling around Europe in a new or nearly new
compact motorhome (for 2 people, with WC) or travelling with a car and
staying in B/B or other low/mid cost accommodation. This is our dilemma
and
I wonder if anyone has done anything like that before ?


If you're not going to use it all year round, have you considered
*renting* a motorhome in Europe for your six week holidays ?

Google gives : about 197,000 hits for germany + motorhome rental.


We have only considered hiring motorhome in UK to get feel for it but, I
suppose, hiring for a longer period on the continent could be a third way
of getting around. However 3 months is more like 13 weeks in a year and the
plan is to do it every year for at least five years. That should be taken
into consideration in any comparative calculations.

Thanks for your input
divoch


  #4 (permalink)  
Old February 28th 07, 04:02 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Hilary
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 145
Default Does motorcaravanning save money?


"divoch" wrote in message
...
Before deciding whether to buy a motorhome I would like to compare fairly
a likely yearly cost of travelling around Europe in a new or nearly new
compact motorhome (for 2 people, with WC) or travelling with a car and
staying in B/B or other low/mid cost accommodation. This is our dilemma
and I wonder if anyone has done anything like that before ?


If you are buying a new motorhome and including the costs of maintenance,
storage, minimum 6mths tax (+6months sorn - assuming off road storage is
available), I think in a comparison between continental package holidays
the mh would come out unfavourably.

Its a long time since I did my calculations and I was briefly comparing our
2nd hand motorhome + 12 month expenses (3month touring per year) against
staying in a UK travel lodge family room (no kids but 2 dogs) and it was
pretty much a break even.

I think its a life style choice more than anything. We have 2 dogs so a
motorhome makes sense to us. I also like my own loo/bathroom, dont like
packing suitcases and am never 100% comfortable in a hotel room whatever
the standard.

I too would suggest hiring a mh initially as its not for everyone. You are
living on top of each other and have adapt to that, not everyone can.

)


  #5 (permalink)  
Old February 28th 07, 11:13 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
ticktock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 116
Default Does motorcaravanning save money?

The motorhoming costs should include
/yearly depreciation costs,
/yearly maintenance costs
/insurance
/club membership costs
/campsite costs ( what should one allow for one night on average assuming
never wild camping?)
/gas and electricity costs
/food
/what else?


Whilst the above will tell you the negative impact in monetary terms
of the cost of ownership, I have to agree with Hilary etc; that it
somehow almost misses the point.
Owning a Motorhome, motorcaravan, rv, .. or even a touring/towing
caravan, is also a lifestyle choice; and that is not something that
will fit into a simple, (definable and measurable), equation.

I believe that we would all have to admit that in pure monetary terms
we could each of us save money by taking other forms of holiday, ....
but touring and camping (in whatever format we do so) is about the
freedom. from the simple freedom to eat what and when you want and
(at times far more importantly) where you want; to the more 'basic'
freedom to use your own facilities without the worry of who has used 3
minutes before. For many of us it is that we enjoy the relaxed pace
of deciding our own itinerary, we eat/sleep/drink (or even get drunk)
when we want without having to succumb to peer pressure from other
hotel guests, or management. These are all the things that I presume
you want from your own extended tours, .... but .... how on earth do
you calculate such in a purely monetary sense.
Personally, I value that freedom and choice at about 5000 per year,
and am happy to (if you like) 'subsidise' the costs of ownership of my
RV to that amount in order to enjoy the freedoms themselves. Others
will no doubt have their own values depending upon their own
circumstances; .. and that part of the equation is the one that only
you can supply.

Regards

Ian

  #6 (permalink)  
Old February 28th 07, 12:41 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Josiah Jenkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 200
Default Does motorcaravanning save money?

Whilst perusing Usenet on Wed, 28 Feb 2007 05:02:01 -0000, I read
these words from "Hilary" :
"divoch" wrote in message

snipped + pasted

Before deciding whether to buy a motorhome I would like to compare fairly
a likely yearly cost of travelling around Europe in a new or nearly new
compact motorhome (for 2 people, with WC) or travelling with a car and
staying in B/B or other low/mid cost accommodation. This is our dilemma
and I wonder if anyone has done anything like that before ?


In my time, I've done both. Toured with the car, using 'B&B' or hotels
in Germany, Denmark and Sweden (plus USA [3 times] and Canada).
Twenty years with a caravan (tent-camping prior to that) and this will
be our third year with a motorhome.

On re-reading the thread, other factors now occur to me.
You've said the following conditions will apply :

'considered hiring motorhome in UK to get feel for it'


Don't take this the wrong way but, are you saying that
you have *no* experience of 'living' in a MH (or even a
caravan) at all, never mind for a six week stint ?

If so, I would *strongly* recommend hiring one, even
if it's only for a 'long weekend'.

'a compact motorhome (for 2 people, with WC)'


How 'compact' do you actually envisage this vehicle ?

'2x 1.5 months is more like 13 weeks in a year'
'planning on every year for at least five years'
'campsite costs (assuming never wild camping)

On the continent, do you regard 'aires' and 'stellplatze'
as 'wild camping' and intend using campsites (with all
the facilities) at all times ? If so, that could prove to be
fairly expensive and you may be missing the whole point
of motorhoming on the continent.

'difference in fuel consumption not be that significant'


Obviously it depends on the vehicles being compared.

My car is a 2.5 Turbo diesel Omega (which was my towcar
for a 7m caravan), the motorhome base unit is a 2.5 Turbo
diesel Renault ('T' / low profile) so the difference in fuel
consumption isn't too far out. (around the 30 mpg mark)

OTOH, if you are comparing a smaller more fuel effecient
car and either an overcab or coachbuilt model . . .

I think in a comparison between continental package holidays
the mh would come out unfavourably.


I suspect so. In my case I've almost a 1,000 mile journey to get
to Dover and back home. The fuel + ferry costs would go a long
way towards paying for a package holiday.

Its a long time since I did my calculations and I was briefly comparing our
2nd hand motorhome + 12 month expenses (3month touring per year) against
staying in a UK travel lodge family room (no kids but 2 dogs) and it was
pretty much a break even.

I think its a life style choice more than anything.


I'd totally agree with all of that.

Similar circumstances. We use ours all year round, have no
children/grandchildren and have one *large* dog (a labrador)
and last year we spent approx 120 nights in the motorhome.

I'm honestly not trying to put you off the idea but if
your main reason for considering the purchase of a MH
is only to save money I fear you'll be sadly disappointed.

I too would suggest hiring a mh initially as its not for
everyone. You are living on top of each other and have
adapt to that, not everyone can.


Have a look at the number of fairly new but *very* low
mileage motorhomes offered for sale in the likes of MMM.

I suspect many of these are being sold by people who have
bought an (expensive) motorhome and discovered that,
for whatever reason, the lifestyle is not to their tastes.

Hope this is of some help.

-- jjj
  #7 (permalink)  
Old February 28th 07, 03:15 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
divoch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default Does motorcaravanning save money?

Josiah Jenkins wrote:
Whilst perusing Usenet on Wed, 28 Feb 2007 05:02:01 -0000, I read
these words from "Hilary" :
"divoch" wrote in message

snipped + pasted

Before deciding whether to buy a motorhome I would like to compare
fairly a likely yearly cost of travelling around Europe in a new or
nearly new compact motorhome (for 2 people, with WC) or travelling
with a car and staying in B/B or other low/mid cost accommodation.
This is our dilemma and I wonder if anyone has done anything like
that before ?


In my time, I've done both. Toured with the car, using 'B&B' or hotels
in Germany, Denmark and Sweden (plus USA [3 times] and Canada).
Twenty years with a caravan (tent-camping prior to that) and this will
be our third year with a motorhome.

On re-reading the thread, other factors now occur to me.
You've said the following conditions will apply :

'considered hiring motorhome in UK to get feel for it'


Don't take this the wrong way but, are you saying that
you have *no* experience of 'living' in a MH (or even a
caravan) at all, never mind for a six week stint ?


I do not take it wrong at all and I see the potential problem of living in a
confined space for long periods of time and I see the benefit of trying it
first. On the other hand, while we never lived in a motorhome, we did
together quite a lot of camping when we were young and then later with
children when they were small. In the very early days we even travelled
around Czechoslovakia in my parents Skoda car and slept in it as you could
fold seats and make a "bed".

If so, I would *strongly* recommend hiring one, even
if it's only for a 'long weekend'.

'a compact motorhome (for 2 people, with WC)'


How 'compact' do you actually envisage this vehicle ?


Definitely shorter than 6m, preferably not more than 5.5m, e.g., from
Autosleeper Duetto size to say Nuevo size, although the latter seems to be
too wide for parking. The most compact coachbuilt I have seen was Autocruise
Vista or Pioneer Pizzaro ( 5.3m long and 2.3m wide) in NEC Birmingham last
week, both with rear entry.

'2x 1.5 months is more like 13 weeks in a year'
'planning on every year for at least five years'
'campsite costs (assuming never wild camping)

On the continent, do you regard 'aires' and 'stellplatze'
as 'wild camping' and intend using campsites (with all
the facilities) at all times ? If so, that could prove to be
fairly expensive and you may be missing the whole point
of motorhoming on the continent.


We would certainly use 'aires' and 'stellplatze' but not true wild camping
unless we would feel both safe and not feel that we may be unwelcome there.
For the calculations I would assume 80% camping proper and 20% 'aires' as I
do not want to make overoptimistic projections of the motorhoming costs

'difference in fuel consumption not be that significant'


Obviously it depends on the vehicles being compared.

My car is a 2.5 Turbo diesel Omega (which was my towcar
for a 7m caravan), the motorhome base unit is a 2.5 Turbo
diesel Renault ('T' / low profile) so the difference in fuel
consumption isn't too far out. (around the 30 mpg mark)

OTOH, if you are comparing a smaller more fuel effecient
car and either an overcab or coachbuilt model . . .


Yes, I know it all depends but that is one of the "simplifications" for the
purpose of getting some figures reasonably quickly


I think in a comparison between continental package holidays
the mh would come out unfavourably.


I suspect so. In my case I've almost a 1,000 mile journey to get
to Dover and back home. The fuel + ferry costs would go a long
way towards paying for a package holiday.


I am not so sure about this. For the other alternative I did not assume a
package holiday with a flight but motoring holiday in my own car and staying
in B/Bs. You still use fuel and have to get over the channel and go
essentially through the same itinerary.
Also, I do not think there are many "package" holidays that I could travel
around for 1.5 months. The only thing what I could consider would be
fly/drive holidays.

Its a long time since I did my calculations and I was briefly
comparing our 2nd hand motorhome + 12 month expenses (3month touring
per year) against staying in a UK travel lodge family room (no kids
but 2 dogs) and it was pretty much a break even.

I think its a life style choice more than anything.


I'd totally agree with all of that.

Similar circumstances. We use ours all year round, have no
children/grandchildren and have one *large* dog (a labrador)
and last year we spent approx 120 nights in the motorhome.

I'm honestly not trying to put you off the idea but if
your main reason for considering the purchase of a MH
is only to save money I fear you'll be sadly disappointed.


It is not the main or the only reason but if motorhoming proved to be more
expensive over several years the combination of other mentioned alternative
ways of travel may prevail.
The other considerations are that :
-we would still want to travel outside Europe and that means not using a
motorhome
-increasing limitations on the romantic notions of travelling by a motorhome
imposed by increasing number of restrictions on where you can go, stay and
park. With a car this is undoubtedly more flexible.
-security issues with your documents and valuables while travelling

I too would suggest hiring a mh initially as its not for
everyone. You are living on top of each other and have
adapt to that, not everyone can.


Yes, I agree. As we are still reasonable active I do not envisage staying
too much in the motorhome except when travelling or sleeping or
cooking/eating and if it rains badly - and that should help. We do not look
at it really as a "home from home" but a convenient mode of getting around,

Have a look at the number of fairly new but *very* low
mileage motorhomes offered for sale in the likes of MMM.

I suspect many of these are being sold by people who have
bought an (expensive) motorhome and discovered that,
for whatever reason, the lifestyle is not to their tastes.


What works somewhat against me is that the smaller campervan type motorhomes
tend to be more expensive than some big coachbuilt ones.

Hope this is of some help.


It certainly does, thanks

divoch



  #8 (permalink)  
Old February 28th 07, 03:53 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
divoch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default Does motorcaravanning save money?

ticktock wrote:
The motorhoming costs should include
/yearly depreciation costs,
/yearly maintenance costs
/insurance
/club membership costs
/campsite costs ( what should one allow for one night on average
assuming never wild camping?)
/gas and electricity costs
/food
/what else?


Whilst the above will tell you the negative impact in monetary terms
of the cost of ownership, I have to agree with Hilary etc; that it
somehow almost misses the point.
Owning a Motorhome, motorcaravan, rv, .. or even a touring/towing
caravan, is also a lifestyle choice; and that is not something that
will fit into a simple, (definable and measurable), equation.


Yes and No. Unless you are already emotionally committed then it does make
sense to know all the pros and cons and costs inevitably come into it. On
the basis of that knowledge and after trying it one can then make a
considered judgement.


I believe that we would all have to admit that in pure monetary terms
we could each of us save money by taking other forms of holiday, ....
but touring and camping (in whatever format we do so) is about the
freedom. from the simple freedom to eat what and when you want and
(at times far more importantly) where you want; to the more 'basic'
freedom to use your own facilities without the worry of who has used 3
minutes before. For many of us it is that we enjoy the relaxed pace
of deciding our own itinerary, we eat/sleep/drink (or even get drunk)
when we want without having to succumb to peer pressure from other
hotel guests, or management. These are all the things that I presume
you want from your own extended tours, .... but .... how on earth do
you calculate such in a purely monetary sense.
Personally, I value that freedom and choice at about 5000 per year,
and am happy to (if you like) 'subsidise' the costs of ownership of my
RV to that amount in order to enjoy the freedoms themselves. Others
will no doubt have their own values depending upon their own
circumstances; .. and that part of the equation is the one that only
you can supply.


I entirely agree with your last sentence but you have , as it appears, done
your sums and decided to "pay the price".
On the assumption that both my wife and I would also enjoy the described
lifestyle I would want to make the calculations and decide, as you did, to
what level we would be prepared to "subsidise" the cost of ownership for
that lifestyle. I would not come to consider the motorhoming and would not
table the question had we not been attracted to the idea but our budget is
not unlimited and we should know the "cost of subsidy" before deciding.

By the way what would this 5000 per year represent, would it be that
"subsidy" cost per person or for 2 people or entirely something different,
if I may ask. I am not looking for utmost precision here but a rough guide.

I personally would still consider travelling by car with a tent and
sometimes use campsites and sometimes hotels although having own facilities
is a distinct advantage. My wife now prefers a less back to basic approach
and I do not see myself dragging a caravan to the continent hence this idea.

divoch


  #9 (permalink)  
Old February 28th 07, 11:30 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
hugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,616
Default Does motorcaravanning save money?

In message , divoch
writes
Before deciding whether to buy a motorhome I would like to compare fairly a
likely yearly cost of travelling around Europe in a new or nearly new
compact motorhome (for 2 people, with WC) or travelling with a car and
staying in B/B or other low/mid cost accommodation. This is our dilemma and
I wonder if anyone has done anything like that before ?

The assumptions are that we would travel abroad for say 3 months in a year
(2x 1.5 months in spring and late summer) and in summer we would spend a
few extended weekends away in UK. Cooking for ourselves except perhaps twice
a week going out for a meal. We would not use motorhome for any extended
trips in winter.

The motorhoming costs should include
/yearly depreciation costs,


Depends what you buy and what age the older the lower the depreciation,
but generally less than a car.
/yearly maintenance costs


Depends what you buy and what age. Generally the older the vehicle the
higher it will be. As a guide look at base van dealers standard
maintenance charge - but it always costs more. With a newish vehicle you
will have to use dealers to maintain the warranty - although on
conversions that on my VW was cut from the van warranty of 3 years down
to one. I have come to hate VW dealers over the last 6 years. They are
rip-off merchants of the highest order.
/insurance


Shop around - depends on vehicle and your driving record. My 1999 VW
based Autosleeper Trouper costs 171 pa fully comp with Caravan Club. I
didn't find many insurers willing to touch motorcaravans.
/club membership costs

See club websites CC and C&CC
/campsite costs ( what should one allow for one night on average assuming
never wild camping?)

Ditto Depends if you go for the small sites with minimal facilities or
the large club managed ones with all mod-cons.
/gas and electricity costs


Minimal - electricity is usually now included in pitch fee so make the
most of it.
/food

How much do you eat and what type - junk or organic for example.

/what else?

The motorhoming yearly cost calculation should not include cost of buying a
motorhome, only running costs and depreciation, and it should not include
cost of fuel - as I am making a simplified assumption that the difference
in consumption will not be that significant for the purpose of rough
calculations.

Could anyone point me in the right direction?


Hopefully I have but there are so many variables it's impossible to be
precise.
Thanks

Divoch



--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
  #10 (permalink)  
Old March 1st 07, 12:40 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
ticktock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 116
Default Does motorcaravanning save money?


Whilst the above will tell you the negative impact in monetary terms
of the cost of ownership, I have to agree with Hilary etc; that it
somehow almost misses the point.
Owning a Motorhome, motorcaravan, rv, .. or even a touring/towing
caravan, is also a lifestyle choice; and that is not something that
will fit into a simple, (definable and measurable), equation.


Yes and No. Unless you are already emotionally committed then it does make
sense to know all the pros and cons and costs inevitably come into it. On
the basis of that knowledge and after trying it one can then make a
considered judgement.


But the emotional 'cost' is one that only you can determine, and then
only (as you rightly say)
"after trying it" for some the emotional cost is so huge that it makes
a mockery of any financial cost-benefit analysis.

I have a friend who, having seen our motorhome, and listened to our
tales of touring around Europe, decided to investigate the cost of
ownership. They went into all the hard costs (which are easy to
determine), analysed and perused the options open to them, and then
(against my advice BTW before someone says "some friend you were not
to advice them against spending so much") went and bought a very nice
Monaco RV at 130,000. I took him out and helped him get his Class-C
licence, they eventually took it home, spent another 3000 or so on
'equipment' and began to plan their trip through Europe. 5 weeks
later they disembarked in France... and after less than a week the
wife decided that she 'hated' the whole lifestyle of 'roughing it in a
caravan' (as they described it... we won't go into how anyone can
consider an almost brand new RV as being 'roughing it'). They came
home, and after advertising the RV for about 8 weeks or so sold it
back to the dealer for 95,000. For them the emotional cost aspect
was obviously something in excess of the 40,000 they lost on the
experience and they were quite 'happy' to lose that amount of money
rather than repeat the experience.




Personally, I value that freedom and choice at about 5000 per year,
and am happy to (if you like) 'subsidise' the costs of ownership of my
RV to that amount in order to enjoy the freedoms themselves.




I entirely agree with your last sentence but you have , as it appears, done
your sums and decided to "pay the price".

By the way what would this 5000 per year represent, would it be that
"subsidy" cost per person or for 2 people or entirely something different,
if I may ask. I am not looking for utmost precision here but a rough guide.
divoch


For us the 5000 is a starting point.. it isn't a definitive sum
arrived at by measurable and quantifiable means, ... it is the amount
of money we would need to save per year before I would even start to
consider changing away from my RV. Is there any hard and fast 'logic'
to it, no .. not really. If you like ... it is the amount that I
personally feel my ownership adds to our emotional 'worth'. It is the
some of money that I would never begrudge spending in order to
experience theat freedom and relaxation factor. But the sum will be
different for everyone depending upon their own financial
circumstances. Without going into personal aspects of money, I will
acknowledge that these days I am able to enjoy a certain level of
spending that I wouldnt have believed achievable 20 years ago.
Then (20 years back) we were so strapped for cash, that, even if I had
been able to own my RV, I would not have been able to subsidise the
ownership equation by any amount. (Which is why at one point we toured
in a caravan I bought from a scrappy for a 40, which had a split in
the chassis, and which I rebuilt the framing of with the wood from old
breadroll trays I scrounged from the tip).
As I have already said the 'emotional cost' is somethign only you can
determine as it is dependant upon your circumstances and your
experience of actually doing the thing.

BTW...We use our motorhome for more than just the European
pilgrimage.
During the summer, and for at least one long weekend per month, we are
to be found at one steam rally or other. These weekends away are worth
hundreds of pounds each to me in terms of the cost of recharging my
batteries (body not electrical); being able to completely relax and
switch off has a different value to each of us.

In order that you can arrive at your own emotional cost, there is only
one way to proceed ... you need to experience it and make up your own
mind. If, as others have suggested, you hire a unit first... then it
won't cost you the 40,000 it cost our friends.


Good luck
Ian

 



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