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Adding seatbelts



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old December 3rd 07, 07:57 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Nebulous[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Adding seatbelts

Hi folks

I've been looking at a Hymer motorhome from the early nineties- main problem
is it only has seatbelts in the front two seats and as there are 4 of us we
need in the rear as well.

How feasible is this? Are there fixing points? What are the regulations for
carrying people/children in the back? Seats must be forward facing is that
right?

Lots of questions I'm afraid, but I don't want to make an expensive mistake.

thanks

Neb


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old December 3rd 07, 08:27 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Gary G Jones[_2_]
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Posts: 17
Default Adding seatbelts

I think you will find that the rear seats can face in any direction, I have
had cars with side facing rear seat (land rover discovery) and also driven
cars with rear facing seats,(some Volvo estates).
As for your other questions sorry I can't help.

GGJ

"Nebulous" wrote in message
...
Hi folks

I've been looking at a Hymer motorhome from the early nineties- main
problem is it only has seatbelts in the front two seats and as there are 4
of us we need in the rear as well.

How feasible is this? Are there fixing points? What are the regulations
for carrying people/children in the back? Seats must be forward facing is
that right?

Lots of questions I'm afraid, but I don't want to make an expensive
mistake.

thanks

Neb




  #3 (permalink)  
Old December 4th 07, 06:53 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
dario
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Adding seatbelts

Nebulous wrote:

I've been looking at a Hymer motorhome from the early nineties- main problem
is it only has seatbelts in the front two seats and as there are 4 of us we
need in the rear as well.

How feasible is this? Are there fixing points? What are the regulations for
carrying people/children in the back? Seats must be forward facing is that
right?


Maybe they offer addon kits.

you might ask your question he

http://www.hymer.com/eu/index.php?ka...100181&case=17

It's their job to answer such questions.

good luck

Dario
  #4 (permalink)  
Old December 4th 07, 07:27 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Nebulous[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Adding seatbelts


"dario" wrote in message
...
Nebulous wrote:

I've been looking at a Hymer motorhome from the early nineties- main
problem is it only has seatbelts in the front two seats and as there are
4 of us we need in the rear as well.

How feasible is this? Are there fixing points? What are the regulations
for carrying people/children in the back? Seats must be forward facing is
that right?


Maybe they offer addon kits.

you might ask your question he

http://www.hymer.com/eu/index.php?ka...100181&case=17

It's their job to answer such questions.

good luck


Thanks very much.

Since posting I found this:

http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/faqs.shtml#seatbelts


which gives a lot of detail. It certainly looks as though the best option
with children is to buy a motor home which had seat belts in the rear as
standard fit. Anything else seems to be a compromise.

Neb


  #5 (permalink)  
Old December 4th 07, 07:41 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Andy R
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 821
Default Adding seatbelts


"Nebulous" wrote in message
...
Hi folks

I've been looking at a Hymer motorhome from the early nineties- main
problem is it only has seatbelts in the front two seats and as there are 4
of us we need in the rear as well.

Legally you don't 'need' them, you may want them for obvious reasons but you
don't 'need' them.

How feasible is this? Are there fixing points? What are the regulations
for carrying people/children in the back?

You are only required to use seat belts where they are fitted.

Seats must be forward facing is that right?

Nope

Safety is an overall thing, not just seatbelts. All you are doing is
playing the odds. Statiscally the effects of most accidents are alleviated
by using seatbelts but sometimes they're a hinderance, ie if you end up
upsidedown in a lake. Same with side airbags and so on. A particular car
for example can get an overall good safety rating because of various
features yet still be lacking in some area, say for example rear impact
resistance. You buy the car on its overall safety rating, not on individual
features then hope that if you're unfortunate enough to have an accident the
odds are right and you hit the bit that's protected best. Unfortunately I
can't find the source for this but I remember reading that ultimately, if
you're going to have an accident, the best safety measure is to be in a
vehicle bigger than the one you hit because you will decelerate more slowly.

Back to campers. Most vehicles on the road are cars with an all up weight
of not much more than a tonne, most campers run around nearly fully loaded
with an all up weight over 3 tonnes. The passengers are also sitting higher
than the front of most cars so side impact is also less of a problem. My
camper has seat belts which the kids use but usually they're slouching or
laying or doing something that makes the belts effectively useless.

I suppose what I'm saying is don't get too worried about not having them.
Campers have a good road safety record which is why the insurance is low, if
they hit anything it's likely to be smaller than they are so deceleration
wont be too rapid and because of the nature of the vehicle it's difficult to
keep kids sitting upright in the optimum position for a seatbelt to be
effective.

I'm not being complacent but, having travelled thousands of miles in mine
trying to get the kids to sit bolt upright for hours on end with the seat
belt in the correct position, I got to the point where they got fed up with
the constant bollockings and didn't want to come any more. I've now taken a
more pragmatic approach (and waffled far more than I intended to).

Rgds

Andy R


  #6 (permalink)  
Old December 11th 07, 12:51 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Dave Smith
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Posts: 20
Default Adding seatbelts

We wanted seatbelts for 4 and simply passed over those that did not have
them fitted by the manufacturer. I am afraid that I do not agree with
some of the other posters comments as side seats are dangerous and
diagonal seatbelts will offer none or very little protection in the
common front or rear shunt. As a fire officer of many years experience
i have never found a seatbelt hinder a passenger but have known them to
save many people's lives. They do however have to fit and be worn
correctly.

I can take on board about being larger than something MAY help in an
accident but don't forget that the body of motorhome is so flimsy and
offers virtually no protection in a crash.

Incidentally when I bought my 10 year old Swift motorhome earlier this
year I wrote to Swift to see if there were any recalls and they
contacted me to have my rear seatbelts frame replaced (free of charge)
Apparently it was only fitted to the wooden floor but Alko have now
replaced it and it is secured to the chassis.

Don't take a risk with your children's lives - despite the odds of being
in an accident as being low.

Dave

Nebulous wrote:
Hi folks

I've been looking at a Hymer motorhome from the early nineties- main problem
is it only has seatbelts in the front two seats and as there are 4 of us we
need in the rear as well.

How feasible is this? Are there fixing points? What are the regulations for
carrying people/children in the back? Seats must be forward facing is that
right?

Lots of questions I'm afraid, but I don't want to make an expensive mistake.

thanks

Neb


  #8 (permalink)  
Old December 11th 07, 08:43 AM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Andy R
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 821
Default Adding seatbelts


"Dave Smith" wrote in message
...
We wanted seatbelts for 4 and simply passed over those that did not have
them fitted by the manufacturer. I am afraid that I do not agree with
some of the other posters comments as side seats are dangerous and
diagonal seatbelts will offer none or very little protection in the common
front or rear shunt. As a fire officer of many years experience i have
never found a seatbelt hinder a passenger but have known them to save many
people's lives. They do however have to fit and be worn correctly.

Exactly. The bench seats in the back of most campers are designed for
adults to sit at a table. Many children cannot sit with their backs against
the back of the seats with their backsides as far back as they will go
because the seat base comes part way between their knees and ankles, so they
sit forward or put their feet on the seats. Unless you've got incredibly
well disciplined children who will sit bolt upright on bench seats with no
lateral support with their legs dangling for hours on end then the belt
becomes next to useless. As soon as they slouch the danger of a broken neck
from 'submarining' is just as great as the danger of other injury caused by
being loose in the vehicle.

I can take on board about being larger than something MAY help in an
accident but don't forget that the body of motorhome is so flimsy and
offers virtually no protection in a crash.

But it's not the body that generally gets hit, it's the chassis. If the
body's been hit sufficiently hard for there to be major intrusion into the
passenger area then belted in or not, you're still going to be squidged.

Incidentally when I bought my 10 year old Swift motorhome earlier this
year I wrote to Swift to see if there were any recalls and they contacted
me to have my rear seatbelts frame replaced (free of charge) Apparently it
was only fitted to the wooden floor but Alko have now replaced it and it
is secured to the chassis.

Don't take a risk with your children's lives - despite the odds of being
in an accident as being low.

It's not just the odds of being in an accident, it's the odds of it being
the 'right/wrong sort' of accident.

Given the choice I'd rather have the belts fitted but I wouldn't get too
excited if they weren't there in the same way I would in a car.

If you're going to retro fit belts then a five point harness is the way to
go. Probably not much more expensive, much more likely to be worn properly
for extended periods and probably more comfortable to wear because it'll
support the child while he's sleeping.

Rgds

Andy R


  #9 (permalink)  
Old December 11th 07, 12:05 PM posted to uk.rec.motorcaravans
Andy R
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 821
Default Adding seatbelts


"Custard" ignore the wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:14:03 -0000, "Andy R"
wrote:


"Custard" ignore the
wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 01:51:32 GMT, Dave Smith
wrote:

We wanted seatbelts for 4 and simply passed over those that did not have
them fitted by the manufacturer. I am afraid that I do not agree with
some of the other posters comments as side seats are dangerous and
diagonal seatbelts will offer none or very little protection in the
common front or rear shunt. As a fire officer of many years experience
i have never found a seatbelt hinder a passenger but have known them to
save many people's lives. They do however have to fit and be worn
correctly.

The point with a Motorcaravan is that you are more likely to be
injured or decapitated by a van thats not pack properly (and most
arent) than get injured by not wearing a seatbelt.
I dont wear one. Im exempt but wouldnt wear one if I wasnt


Unless there is some underlying medical condition I can see no logical
reason for not wearing a seatbelt. Whether you have packed the van badly
or
not you are unlikely to be better off in an impact without a belt.

Rgds

Andy R

Well you are entitled to your opinion. Wrong though it may be.


It may not help when you drive off the end of the flat earth you must also
believe in, but seat belts clearly help in the vast majority of other
accident types.

Rgds

Andy R


 



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