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UK Caravanning (uk.rec.caravanning) A forum for the discussion of caravanning undertaken by residents of the United Kingdom, whether in the UK or abroad. It encourages the interchange of views on the merits of models of caravan, makes of tow car, accessories, caravan sites, caravan clubs, and other related topics. The term caravan is to include trailer vans, motor caravans and trailer tents.

Tow mirrors



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old April 16th 08, 09:55 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
ForeverArsenal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default Tow mirrors

Have been told that if you are able to see though your caravan front windows
and out of the back window of the van while towing and are able to see
traffic
behind you, you are not required by law to fit towing mirrors.

Can anyone confirm if this is true please.


Don't get to friendly with the neighbours.
You never know when you've got to upset
them.


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old April 17th 08, 05:41 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default Tow mirrors

"ForeverArsenal" wrote in
news:[email protected]:

Have been told that if you are able to see though your caravan front
windows and out of the back window of the van while towing and are
able to see traffic
behind you, you are not required by law to fit towing mirrors.

Can anyone confirm if this is true please.


It seems the law changed in 2005 so if your caravan is wider than your
towcar, you need towing mirrors, they must be e-marked, and it can cost you
3 points plus a fine if you don't comply. Here's what Milenco say on the
subject.

------------------------------------
Towing Mirrors - The Law

The Law in the United Kingdom specifies, you must be able to see clearly
down both sides of the caravan, and see 4 meters either side of the caravan
at a distance of 20 meters behind the rear of the caravan.

This in reality means, if your caravan/trailer is wider than the rear of
your tow vehicle, you must fit towing mirrors to comply with the law. You
can be fined up to 1000 and get 3 point on your licence for towing blind.
(At exhibitions, we have met many caravanners that had received 3 points
and 60 fixed penalty notices.)

On tow vehicles conforming to directive 2003/97 EC or sold after January
2007, the towing mirrors may project 25cms further than the widest part of
the caravan. On tow vehicles pre dating this directive, the mirrors may
project 20 cms further than the widest part of the caravan.

Since 12th of December 2005 it is a legal requirement that you have type
approved (e-marked) mirrors on both sides of the tow vehicle.
--------------------------------------

See http://www.milenco.com/mirrors.html for the full text.

HTH,

Geoff
  #3 (permalink)  
Old April 17th 08, 07:10 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 594
Default Tow mirrors



"Geoff Lane" wrote in message
7.64...
"ForeverArsenal" wrote in
news:[email protected]:

Have been told that if you are able to see though your caravan front
windows and out of the back window of the van while towing and are
able to see traffic
behind you, you are not required by law to fit towing mirrors.

Can anyone confirm if this is true please.


It seems the law changed in 2005 so if your caravan is wider than your
towcar, you need towing mirrors, they must be e-marked, and it can cost
you
3 points plus a fine if you don't comply. Here's what Milenco say on the
subject.

------------------------------------
Towing Mirrors - The Law

The Law in the United Kingdom specifies, you must be able to see clearly
down both sides of the caravan, and see 4 meters either side of the
caravan
at a distance of 20 meters behind the rear of the caravan.

This in reality means, if your caravan/trailer is wider than the rear of
your tow vehicle, you must fit towing mirrors to comply with the law. You
can be fined up to 1000 and get 3 point on your licence for towing blind.
(At exhibitions, we have met many caravanners that had received 3 points
and 60 fixed penalty notices.)

On tow vehicles conforming to directive 2003/97 EC or sold after January
2007, the towing mirrors may project 25cms further than the widest part of
the caravan. On tow vehicles pre dating this directive, the mirrors may
project 20 cms further than the widest part of the caravan.

Since 12th of December 2005 it is a legal requirement that you have type
approved (e-marked) mirrors on both sides of the tow vehicle.


Might be a bit early for me but does your first para. say might need and
last para. say got to have any way?

But do not most people only have one anyway?

Can we have advise from someone other than a mirror maker.

--
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

  #4 (permalink)  
Old April 17th 08, 09:07 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Lunar475
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 210
Default Tow mirrors

On 17 Apr, 08:10, "David" wrote:
"Geoff Lane" wrote in message

7.64...



"ForeverArsenal" wrote in
news:[email protected]:


Have been told that if you are able to see though your caravan front
windows and out of the back window of the van while towing and are
able to see traffic
behind you, you are not required by law to fit towing mirrors.


Can anyone confirm if this is true please.


It seems the law changed in 2005 so if your caravan is wider than your
towcar, you need towing mirrors, they must be e-marked, and it can cost
you
3 points plus a fine if you don't comply. Here's what Milenco say on the
subject.


------------------------------------
Towing Mirrors - The Law


The Law in the United Kingdom specifies, you must be able to see clearly
down both sides of the caravan, and see 4 meters either side of the
caravan
at a distance of 20 meters behind the rear of the caravan.


This in reality means, if your caravan/trailer is wider than the rear of
your tow vehicle, you must fit towing mirrors to comply with the law. You
can be fined up to 1000 and get 3 point on your licence for towing blind.
(At exhibitions, we have met many caravanners that had received 3 points
and 60 fixed penalty notices.)


On tow vehicles conforming to directive 2003/97 EC or sold after January
2007, the towing mirrors may project 25cms further than the widest part of
the caravan. On tow vehicles pre dating this directive, the mirrors may
project 20 cms further than the widest part of the caravan.


Since 12th of December 2005 it is a legal requirement that you have type
approved (e-marked) mirrors on both sides of the tow vehicle.


Might be a bit early for me but does your first para. say might need and
last para. say got to have any way?

But do not most people only have one anyway?

Can we have advise from someone other than a mirror maker.

--
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group


A pair of towing mirrors is hardly the greatest expense you are
lightly to have when equipping an outfit......
  #5 (permalink)  
Old April 17th 08, 09:08 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default Tow mirrors

"David" wrote in
:

Might be a bit early for me but does your first para. say might need
and last para. say got to have any way?

But do not most people only have one anyway?


Prior to the Road Safety Act 2006, I undersand the situation was that
you needed to be able to see down the offside of the trailer and also
have "adequate view to the rear". Where adequate view to the rear wasn't
possible (because you couldn't see through or over the trailer), you
needed to be able to see down the nearside of the trailer. So:

- If the 'van was no wider than the distance between the centres of the
door mirrors, you were able to see down both sides of the trailer, and
so towing mirrors were not required because your standard door mirrors
were enough.

- If the 'van was too wide to see down the offside and it was either low
enough or you could see through the van enough for the car's interior
mirror to give an adequate view to the rear, you needed a towing mirror
on the offside only (although most people fitted a pair).

- If the 'van was too wide to see down the sides and it blocked your
view behind the van, you needed a pair of towing mirrors.

Milenco say that this has changed so that if you needed an offside
mirror only previously, you now need to fit a pair. They say that the
specification for the mirrors now demands that they're approved
(e-marked).


Can we have advise from someone other than a mirror maker.


You can have it from the horses mouth. I've found the legislation that
changes the requirements, but not the penalties. It's SI 3165 of 2005 -
The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use)(Amendment)(No.4) Regulations
2005 - and you can download a PDF of this at
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/uksi_20053165_en.pdf

AFAICT, Milenco have it wrong and the number of mirrors hasn't changed
(although they are probably correct WRT e-marking) AFAICT, car and
caravan combinations come under item 8 of the table on page 9, but see
what you think!

HTH,

Geoff
  #6 (permalink)  
Old April 17th 08, 11:18 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 594
Default Tow mirrors

From: Geoff Lane
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:08 AM
Newsgroups: uk.rec.caravanning
Subject: Tow mirrors



http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/uksi_20053165_en.pdf

AFAICT, Milenco have it wrong and the number of mirrors hasn't changed
(although they are probably correct WRT e-marking) AFAICT, car and
caravan combinations come under item 8 of the table on page 9, but see
what you think!


Well I noted the bit one can be ok.
I look at the Caravan Club web site but not found it helpful, did see a
statement to the effect the courts would decide when there.

To me Milenco, who made my one mirror, want me to rush out and buy 2 new
ones of theirs with the mark on.
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

  #7 (permalink)  
Old April 17th 08, 02:20 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default Tow mirrors

"David" wrote in news:%[email protected]
win.ntli.net:

To me Milenco, who made my one mirror, want me to rush out and buy 2 new
ones of theirs with the mark on.


Reading the regulations I linked in my previous post, all mandatory mirrors
must comply with EC regulations. Judging by EC regulations for lights and
other vehicles bits, the mirrors must be marked as compliant otherwise they
don't comply.

FWIW, I've just dug out a couple of pairs of mirrors I bought seven or
eight years ago. One pair is marked with "e11", the other with "e3", both
in a rectangle, and both sets also have a number that I assume is an
approval number. So, the chances are that unless your mirror is ancient it
is already e-marked. On both of mine, the mark in moulded into the back of
the mirror head and is fairly obvious, so it shouldn't be that difficult to
check.
  #8 (permalink)  
Old April 17th 08, 03:01 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 594
Default Tow mirrors



"Geoff Lane" wrote in message
.64...
"David" wrote in news:%[email protected]
win.ntli.net:

To me Milenco, who made my one mirror, want me to rush out and buy 2 new
ones of theirs with the mark on.


Reading the regulations I linked in my previous post, all mandatory
mirrors
must comply with EC regulations. Judging by EC regulations for lights and
other vehicles bits, the mirrors must be marked as compliant otherwise
they
don't comply.

FWIW, I've just dug out a couple of pairs of mirrors I bought seven or
eight years ago. One pair is marked with "e11", the other with "e3", both
in a rectangle, and both sets also have a number that I assume is an
approval number. So, the chances are that unless your mirror is ancient it
is already e-marked. On both of mine, the mark in moulded into the back of
the mirror head and is fairly obvious, so it shouldn't be that difficult
to
check.



On my one and only it has "e3"
Not going to worry about it, Police not seem worried round here that over
50% drive without insurance so I guess they not worry about an e3 or not.

--
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

  #9 (permalink)  
Old April 17th 08, 09:14 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
hugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,616
Default Tow mirrors

In message , Geoff
Lane writes
"David" wrote in news:%[email protected]
win.ntli.net:

To me Milenco, who made my one mirror, want me to rush out and buy 2 new
ones of theirs with the mark on.


Reading the regulations I linked in my previous post, all mandatory mirrors
must comply with EC regulations. Judging by EC regulations for lights and
other vehicles bits, the mirrors must be marked as compliant otherwise they
don't comply.

FWIW, I've just dug out a couple of pairs of mirrors I bought seven or
eight years ago. One pair is marked with "e11", the other with "e3", both
in a rectangle, and both sets also have a number that I assume is an
approval number. So, the chances are that unless your mirror is ancient it
is already e-marked. On both of mine, the mark in moulded into the back of
the mirror head and is fairly obvious, so it shouldn't be that difficult to
check.

My 1998 LR Defender mirrors can be swung out and are then wide enough
to see clearly down each side of the van. I wonder if they're type
approved. Maybe part of the vehicle type approval. On the other hand the
factory fitted integral towbar hasn't got a type approval label either.
Maybe it's classed as a commercial vehicle derivative which doesn't need
type approval on the towbar. Wonder if the same applies to the swing
mirrors.

Wonder if the jobsworths who dream up these regulations thing we have
nothing better to do with our lives than try to understand the garbage
they come out with.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
  #10 (permalink)  
Old April 17th 08, 09:50 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
ForeverArsenal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default Tow mirrors

Geoff Lane" wrote in message
7.64... "ForeverArsenal"
wrote in
news:[email protected]:

Have been told that if you are able to see though your caravan front
windows and out of the back window of the van while towing and are
able to see traffic


It seems the law changed in 2005 so if your caravan is wider than your
towcar, you need towing mirrors, they must be e-marked, and it can cost
you
3 points plus a fine if you don't comply.


Hi Geoff
Many thanks for the info.

Recently purchased a lge 4x4 high and wide but do not
have caravan at home to check,still in storage.
Hope to check next week ,but thanks for the reply,appreciated.

Barry.

--
Don't get to friendly with the neighbours.
You never know when you've got to upset
them.

"


 



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