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OT Tax refund BEWARE



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old June 11th 08, 03:16 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
g6zru
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default OT Tax refund BEWARE

I received a very genuine looking email today purporting to be from HM
Revenue and Customs saying that I had a Tax Refund. I was suspicious
when it asked for my creditcard details and phoned HMRC. They
confirmed that it was a Phishing attack and asked me to forward the
email to them.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old June 11th 08, 10:57 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
bill lord
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,533
Default OT Tax refund BEWARE

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:16:23 -0700 (PDT), g6zru
wrote:

I received a very genuine looking email today purporting to be from HM
Revenue and Customs saying that I had a Tax Refund. I was suspicious
when it asked for my creditcard details and phoned HMRC. They
confirmed that it was a Phishing attack and asked me to forward the
email to them.


Tax refunds come in anonimous brown envelopes and you will get no
warning of their arrival, anything that comes through e-mail like that
is always just a phishing trip.

Bill Lord
I've taken a vow of poverty To annoy me send money

e-mail messages to bill dot lord at uku dot co dot uk
( Get rid of the spaces and use symbols for the hyphen at and dots )
  #3 (permalink)  
Old June 12th 08, 05:41 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Hirem Firem
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default OT Tax refund BEWARE


"g6zru" wrote in message
...
I received a very genuine looking email today purporting to be from HM
Revenue and Customs saying that I had a Tax Refund. I was suspicious
when it asked for my creditcard details and phoned HMRC. They
confirmed that it was a Phishing attack and asked me to forward the
email to them.

And I bet most of them responded!


  #4 (permalink)  
Old June 12th 08, 06:42 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default OT Tax refund BEWARE

bill lord wrote in
:

Tax refunds come in anonimous brown envelopes and you will get no
warning of their arrival, anything that comes through e-mail like that
is always just a phishing trip.


http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/security/fraud-attempts.htm makes interesting
reading.

I know that the Revenue is keen to get everyone interacting with them
online, but IMO these scams seriously undermine the usefulness of the
Internet for that. HMRC do notify their "customers" by e-mail, and even if
you cannot guarantee that a message is genuine, you are not permitted by
law to ignore many HMRC demands. So HMRC's move to online interaction has
created a window of opportunity for the scammers.

Geoff
  #5 (permalink)  
Old June 16th 08, 09:09 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Graham[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default OT Tax refund BEWARE


"Geoff Lane" wrote in message
7.64...
bill lord wrote in
:

Tax refunds come in anonimous brown envelopes and you will get no
warning of their arrival, anything that comes through e-mail like that
is always just a phishing trip.


http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/security/fraud-attempts.htm makes interesting
reading.

I know that the Revenue is keen to get everyone interacting with them
online, but IMO these scams seriously undermine the usefulness of the
Internet for that. HMRC do notify their "customers" by e-mail, and even if
you cannot guarantee that a message is genuine, you are not permitted by
law to ignore many HMRC demands. So HMRC's move to online interaction has
created a window of opportunity for the scammers.


One of my old email accounts gets 50 of these sorts of emails a day. You
must get more "street" wise and ignore anything that does NOT come from
someone you know or have business with. If in doubt, open the email as plain
text or by viewing its property details first so you don't run any scripts.
Its ridiculous to think HMRC would contact you by email and certainly never
ask for payment that way. Just think it through. The fact you took it
seriously enough to not delete it straight away and even contacted HMRC,
worries me greatly and shows you are vulnerable to influence by these scams.
Your default reaction should be NO. The fact it looks official means nothing
these day whether printed on paper or in emails/websites. Get wise. Its a
tricky world out there and the old ways of trusting that many old people
still adhere to make them very vulnerable.

Graham


  #6 (permalink)  
Old June 16th 08, 11:08 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Roy[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 111
Default OT Tax refund BEWARE

Graham said the following on 16/06/2008 10:09:
"Geoff Lane" wrote in message
7.64...
bill lord wrote in
:

Tax refunds come in anonimous brown envelopes and you will get no
warning of their arrival, anything that comes through e-mail like that
is always just a phishing trip.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/security/fraud-attempts.htm makes interesting
reading.

I know that the Revenue is keen to get everyone interacting with them
online, but IMO these scams seriously undermine the usefulness of the
Internet for that. HMRC do notify their "customers" by e-mail, and even if
you cannot guarantee that a message is genuine, you are not permitted by
law to ignore many HMRC demands. So HMRC's move to online interaction has
created a window of opportunity for the scammers.


One of my old email accounts gets 50 of these sorts of emails a day. You
must get more "street" wise and ignore anything that does NOT come from
someone you know or have business with. If in doubt, open the email as plain
text or by viewing its property details first so you don't run any scripts.
Its ridiculous to think HMRC would contact you by email and certainly never
ask for payment that way. Just think it through. The fact you took it
seriously enough to not delete it straight away and even contacted HMRC,
worries me greatly and shows you are vulnerable to influence by these scams.
Your default reaction should be NO. The fact it looks official means nothing
these day whether printed on paper or in emails/websites. Get wise. Its a
tricky world out there and the old ways of trusting that many old people
still adhere to make them very vulnerable.

Graham


Regard it the same as for door to door selling - if you haven't asked for
it you don't want it!

Roy
  #7 (permalink)  
Old June 16th 08, 12:00 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Graham[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default OT Tax refund BEWARE


"Roy" wrote in message
...
Graham said the following on 16/06/2008 10:09:
"Geoff Lane" wrote in message
7.64...
bill lord wrote in
:

Tax refunds come in anonimous brown envelopes and you will get no
warning of their arrival, anything that comes through e-mail like that
is always just a phishing trip.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/security/fraud-attempts.htm makes interesting
reading.

I know that the Revenue is keen to get everyone interacting with them
online, but IMO these scams seriously undermine the usefulness of the
Internet for that. HMRC do notify their "customers" by e-mail, and even
if
you cannot guarantee that a message is genuine, you are not permitted by
law to ignore many HMRC demands. So HMRC's move to online interaction
has
created a window of opportunity for the scammers.


One of my old email accounts gets 50 of these sorts of emails a day. You
must get more "street" wise and ignore anything that does NOT come from
someone you know or have business with. If in doubt, open the email as
plain text or by viewing its property details first so you don't run any
scripts. Its ridiculous to think HMRC would contact you by email and
certainly never ask for payment that way. Just think it through. The fact
you took it seriously enough to not delete it straight away and even
contacted HMRC, worries me greatly and shows you are vulnerable to
influence by these scams. Your default reaction should be NO. The fact it
looks official means nothing these day whether printed on paper or in
emails/websites. Get wise. Its a tricky world out there and the old ways
of trusting that many old people still adhere to make them very
vulnerable.

Graham

Regard it the same as for door to door selling - if you haven't asked for
it you don't want it!

Or in my case, how dare you knock on my door and disturb me. Now **** off
and be thankful you got away with you life.

Graham


  #8 (permalink)  
Old June 16th 08, 12:03 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default OT Tax refund BEWARE

"Graham" wrote in
net:

I know that the Revenue is keen to get everyone interacting with them
online, but IMO these scams seriously undermine the usefulness of the
Internet for that. HMRC do notify their "customers" by e-mail, and
even if you cannot guarantee that a message is genuine, you are not
permitted by law to ignore many HMRC demands. So HMRC's move to
online interaction has created a window of opportunity for the
scammers.


One of my old email accounts gets 50 of these sorts of emails a day.
You must get more "street" wise and ignore anything that does NOT come
from someone you know or have business with. If in doubt, open the
email as plain text or by viewing its property details first so you
don't run any scripts. Its ridiculous to think HMRC would contact you
by email and certainly never ask for payment that way. Just think it
through. The fact you took it seriously enough to not delete it
straight away and even contacted HMRC, worries me greatly and shows
you are vulnerable to influence by these scams. Your default reaction
should be NO. The fact it looks official means nothing these day
whether printed on paper or in emails/websites. Get wise. Its a tricky
world out there and the old ways of trusting that many old people
still adhere to make them very vulnerable.


Firstly, I'm not naive enough to use a MS virus magnet. My mail client
will not open off-page resources or run scripts and it displays the
actual address of all links, thus allowing me to confirm they are what
they appear to be.

Secondly, HMRC do contact me via e-mail. They contact me to advise me to
file business and personal tax returns, VAT returns, etc. They have
twice contacted me via e-mail to advise that I have a tax refund due and
that they will pay that into my bank account. Some of their on-line
forms (e.g. personal self-assessment) do ask for bank details so that
they can transfer funds to your account. They have also contacted me via
e-mail to confirm receipt of a return and to advise that I must pay on
or before a certain date. As I wrote, HMRC do notify their "customers"
by e-mail. As I also wrote, you cannot ignore HMRC demands.

It is thus far from ridiculous to think HMTC would contact you by e-
mail, or that they never ask for payment that way. The default reaction
must not be to bury your head in the sand and pretend on the grounds it
might be a scam that you haven't received something that could be
genuine. However, you cannot take anything for granted these days and
you have to take adequate steps to ensure the veracity of such
communiques.

WRT contacting HMRC, FYI they ask that we notify them of suspected
fraud, as you'd know if you bothered to follow the link I gave. If
nobody reports these scams, the Revenue, bank, or whoever cannot take
action.

Get wise! it's a tricky world out there and that, FYI, is why I wrote
that these scams seriously underline the usefulness of the Internet for
interaction with the Revenue etc.

Geoff
  #9 (permalink)  
Old June 16th 08, 01:23 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Graham[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default OT Tax refund BEWARE


"Geoff Lane" wrote in message
.64...
"Graham" wrote in
net:

I know that the Revenue is keen to get everyone interacting with them
online, but IMO these scams seriously undermine the usefulness of the
Internet for that. HMRC do notify their "customers" by e-mail, and
even if you cannot guarantee that a message is genuine, you are not
permitted by law to ignore many HMRC demands. So HMRC's move to
online interaction has created a window of opportunity for the
scammers.


One of my old email accounts gets 50 of these sorts of emails a day.
You must get more "street" wise and ignore anything that does NOT come
from someone you know or have business with. If in doubt, open the
email as plain text or by viewing its property details first so you
don't run any scripts. Its ridiculous to think HMRC would contact you
by email and certainly never ask for payment that way. Just think it
through. The fact you took it seriously enough to not delete it
straight away and even contacted HMRC, worries me greatly and shows
you are vulnerable to influence by these scams. Your default reaction
should be NO. The fact it looks official means nothing these day
whether printed on paper or in emails/websites. Get wise. Its a tricky
world out there and the old ways of trusting that many old people
still adhere to make them very vulnerable.


Firstly, I'm not naive enough to use a MS virus magnet. My mail client
will not open off-page resources or run scripts and it displays the
actual address of all links, thus allowing me to confirm they are what
they appear to be.

Secondly, HMRC do contact me via e-mail. They contact me to advise me to
file business and personal tax returns, VAT returns, etc. They have
twice contacted me via e-mail to advise that I have a tax refund due and
that they will pay that into my bank account. Some of their on-line
forms (e.g. personal self-assessment) do ask for bank details so that
they can transfer funds to your account. They have also contacted me via
e-mail to confirm receipt of a return and to advise that I must pay on
or before a certain date. As I wrote, HMRC do notify their "customers"
by e-mail. As I also wrote, you cannot ignore HMRC demands.

It is thus far from ridiculous to think HMTC would contact you by e-
mail, or that they never ask for payment that way. The default reaction
must not be to bury your head in the sand and pretend on the grounds it
might be a scam that you haven't received something that could be
genuine. However, you cannot take anything for granted these days and
you have to take adequate steps to ensure the veracity of such
communiques.

WRT contacting HMRC, FYI they ask that we notify them of suspected
fraud, as you'd know if you bothered to follow the link I gave. If
nobody reports these scams, the Revenue, bank, or whoever cannot take
action.

Get wise! it's a tricky world out there and that, FYI, is why I wrote
that these scams seriously underline the usefulness of the Internet for
interaction with the Revenue etc.


Well you are the idiot who fell for it enough to investigate it further. If
you can't spot a scam in an instant then you have something to learn that
others already know and you don't, judging by your reply and by your
refusal in life to listen to other people. I avoided mentioning gullible or
naive in my post, but now you have brought it up... If the cap fits etc. I
should have known better than to try to help a ****ing ham. All the same. If
you still want to believe HMRC would send you an email and ask for payment,
then carry on, get out your credit card and fill in the form. See if I care.
You have been warned, now you will learn the hard way. You are also naive to
inform HMRC of the scam. There are so many of them that its impossible to do
anything about it and all that will happen as you will get flagged by
HMRC/banks or anyone you inform as a sap who might be a risk from such
things.

Graham


  #10 (permalink)  
Old June 16th 08, 04:18 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default OT Tax refund BEWARE

"Graham" wrote in
news:[email protected]:

Well you are the idiot who fell for it enough to investigate it
further. If you can't spot a scam in an instant then you have
something to learn that others already know and you don't, judging by
your reply and by your refusal in life to listen to other people. I
avoided mentioning gullible or naive in my post, but now you have
brought it up... If the cap fits etc. I should have known better than
to try to help a ****ing ham. All the same. If you still want to
believe HMRC would send you an email and ask for payment, then carry
on, get out your credit card and fill in the form. See if I care. You
have been warned, now you will learn the hard way. You are also naive
to inform HMRC of the scam. There are so many of them that its
impossible to do anything about it and all that will happen as you
will get flagged by HMRC/banks or anyone you inform as a sap who might
be a risk from such things.


Graham, You really don't get it, do you! It's not me who's refusing to
listen to other people, it's you. I hear what you say, but I already
know of the dangers you relate and take all the normal precautions.
However, to spell it out so that hopefully even you can understand:

I recognised the scam for what it was - in an instant.

As requested by HMRC, I forwarded the phishing messages to their fraud
team. It cost me all of a couple of minutes to bundle the lot up
(including headers) and forward them on. There were a few phishing sites
involved, all registered via GoDaddy, which HMRC should be able to get
shut down. Reporting might also get the associated open relays closed.
So there is a point to reporting such activity.

I suggest your re-read my posts. I merely expressed doubts that the
Internet can continue to be a reliable medium for communication between
the Revenue and taxpayers.

No matter whether you believe HMRC communicate with their "customers"
via e-mail, the fact is that they have and do. You wrote, "its
ridiculous to think HMRC would contact you by email ..." However, the
half-dozen messages in my inbox from HMRC this year is evidence that you
really don't know what you're burbling about. I'm not talking about the
hundreds of phishing attempts I've seen. Here I'm talking about genuine
and legitimate e-mail messages I've received from HMRC. For example, on
24th May I received a reminder to file a VAT return for the last period.
Since I'm registered for e-VAT, that message was expected (as were all
the genuine ones).

Currently, many businesses are obliged to work with the Revenue online,
and all businesses will be required to file online in the near future. I
foresee that will apply to individuals soon after, and they've already
cut the date to file self-assessment returns on paper to "encourage"
taxpayers to e-file. Companies House is another Government department
that likes to interact with "its customers" on line, and one of their
forms for filing the shuttle return takes your credit or debit card
details in respect of the filing fee. Another time they ask for your
bank details is when you file your annual self-assement. Towards the end
of the process, you're invited to give the sort code, account name, and
number into which HMRC are to pay any refund.

In a nutshell, the Revenue et al. want to cut costs by forcing e-filing
and other on-line working. So you can expect the amount of e-mail and
web-form interaction with Government departments to increase, which
means that we must be even more on our guard against the scammers. Tax
communication doesn't only come in brown envelopes and I suspect it
won't be long before some enterprising scammers manage to clone the
Government Gateway and/or HMRC's online filing applications.

Unfortunately, if you're obliged to file online you have no option but
file online. If you fail to obey the notice to file, you're liable for
at least a fine.

Now you can ignore genuine communication from HMRC if you wish. However,
you'll only have yourself to blame if you're fined for non-compliance or
face an investigation.

Geoff
 



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