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UK Caravanning (uk.rec.caravanning) A forum for the discussion of caravanning undertaken by residents of the United Kingdom, whether in the UK or abroad. It encourages the interchange of views on the merits of models of caravan, makes of tow car, accessories, caravan sites, caravan clubs, and other related topics. The term caravan is to include trailer vans, motor caravans and trailer tents.

Towing Training/licence



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old March 11th 09, 08:02 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Towing Training/licence

Our son wants to borrow our van, but finds he has to have the
appropriate driving licence, which means taking a course and passing a
test. Even though it is something I never had to do, I accept that
there is an argument in favour of it. While it is not that difficult
to tow a caravan, there are definitely some skills to learn.

So said son enquires of a Milton Keynes firm that offers training
courses and finds that it takes 2.5 days and costs 799. The
subsequent test costs a further 105 - or 150, I forget which.

Can this be right? How does this compare with others' experiences? It
seems like a rip-off riding on the back of a blatant taxation-by-
licence scam.

Has anyone any experience of such courses or might recommend one? I
would venture to suggest that, while skills need to be learned to tow
a caravan, I have never come across a situation yet where I was
completely flummoxed. The real skill to learn is reversing, which is
rarely so difficult that it demands two days training. And said son
has been able to manage hooking up the car and van since he was a kid,
so there is nothing sigificant for him to learn there.
Ads
  #2 (permalink)  
Old March 11th 09, 09:57 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Rich B[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default Towing Training/licence

typed:
Our son wants to borrow our van, but finds he has to have the
appropriate driving licence, which means taking a course and passing a
test. Even though it is something I never had to do, I accept that
there is an argument in favour of it. While it is not that difficult
to tow a caravan, there are definitely some skills to learn.

So said son enquires of a Milton Keynes firm that offers training
courses and finds that it takes 2.5 days and costs 799. The
subsequent test costs a further 105 - or 150, I forget which.

Can this be right? How does this compare with others' experiences? It
seems like a rip-off riding on the back of a blatant taxation-by-
licence scam.

Has anyone any experience of such courses or might recommend one? I
would venture to suggest that, while skills need to be learned to tow
a caravan, I have never come across a situation yet where I was
completely flummoxed. The real skill to learn is reversing, which is
rarely so difficult that it demands two days training. And said son
has been able to manage hooking up the car and van since he was a kid,
so there is nothing sigificant for him to learn there.


Depends where you are. If you're local to MK, this isn't much use, but
there is a guy local to me (West Wales) who is an excellent trainer and
would surely not rip you off like this.

--
Rich B

1971 S2a
1995 XT600E
2003 ST1300 Pan European
Oh, and a Ford

Take out the obvious to email me.

  #3 (permalink)  
Old March 12th 09, 07:27 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Andy R
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 821
Default Towing Training/licence


wrote in message
...
Our son wants to borrow our van, but finds he has to have the
appropriate driving licence, which means taking a course and passing a
test. Even though it is something I never had to do, I accept that
there is an argument in favour of it. While it is not that difficult
to tow a caravan, there are definitely some skills to learn.

So said son enquires of a Milton Keynes firm that offers training
courses and finds that it takes 2.5 days and costs 799. The
subsequent test costs a further 105 - or 150, I forget which.

Can this be right? How does this compare with others' experiences? It
seems like a rip-off riding on the back of a blatant taxation-by-
licence scam.

Has anyone any experience of such courses or might recommend one? I
would venture to suggest that, while skills need to be learned to tow
a caravan, I have never come across a situation yet where I was
completely flummoxed. The real skill to learn is reversing, which is
rarely so difficult that it demands two days training. And said son
has been able to manage hooking up the car and van since he was a kid,
so there is nothing sigificant for him to learn there.



Some years ago I was involved in training drivers for the C+E (artic) test,
some students were coming straight from a car licence while others already
had cat C. The test your son will be doing is exactly the same as the C+E
test but in a smaller vehicle.
IME it took an average of 10 hours training to go from C to C+E and there's
no reason to suppose it'll be much different going from B to B+E. There are
particular exercises to practice (coupling/uncoupling, uphill start,
downhill start, angle start, gear-change, braking & reversing) otherwise the
student won't know what to expect on test day. Most of the time however was
spent getting 'normal' driving skills up to test standard with a longer
slower vehicle.

I would have thought you could get a local driving instructor to teach your
son in your car with the caravan attached but do make sure it's an
instructor who knows the B+E test 'cos it's rather different from the normal
car test. Ideally you should get an C+E instructor but ironically most of
these aren't approved driving instructors (ADI's) so although they can teach
in an artic they can't teach in a car.

Rgds

Andy R


  #4 (permalink)  
Old March 12th 09, 08:00 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
padrc66
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Towing Training/licence

On 12 Mar, 08:27, "Andy R" wrote:
wrote in message

...
Our son wants to borrow our van, but finds he has to have the
appropriate driving licence, which means taking a course and passing a
test. Even though it is something I never had to do, I accept that
there is an argument in favour of it. While it is not that difficult
to tow a caravan, there are definitely some skills to learn.

So said son enquires of a Milton Keynes firm that offers training
courses and finds that it takes 2.5 days and costs 799. The
subsequent test costs a further 105 - or 150, I forget which.

Can this be right? How does this compare with others' experiences? It
seems like a rip-off riding on the back of a blatant taxation-by-
licence scam.

Has anyone any experience of such courses or might recommend one? I
would venture to suggest that, while skills need to be learned to tow
a caravan, I have never come across a situation yet where I was
completely flummoxed. The real skill to learn is reversing, which is
rarely so difficult that it demands two days training. And said son
has been able to manage hooking up the car and van since he was a kid,
so there is nothing sigificant for him to learn there.

Some years ago I was involved in training drivers for the C+E (artic) test,
some students were coming straight from a car licence while others already
had cat C. *The test your son will be doing is exactly the same as the C+E
test but in a smaller vehicle.
IME it took an average of 10 hours training to go from C to C+E and there's
no reason to suppose it'll be much different going from B to B+E. *There are
particular exercises to practice (coupling/uncoupling, uphill start,
downhill start, angle start, gear-change, braking & reversing) otherwise the
student won't know what to expect on test day. *Most of the time however was
spent getting 'normal' driving skills up to test standard with a longer
slower vehicle.

I would have thought you could get a local driving instructor to teach your
son in your car with the caravan attached but do make sure it's an
instructor who knows the B+E test 'cos it's rather different from the normal
car test. *Ideally you should get an C+E instructor but ironically most of
these aren't approved driving instructors (ADI's) so although they can teach
in an artic they can't teach in a car.

Rgds

Andy R


not sure if you realise, but for a lot of car and caravan combinations
you only need a class B license (normal car) as below from

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...es/DG_10013073

car and trailer gross weight (ie train weight) less than 3500kg

and trailer gross weight less than car unladen weight

this fits in with normal caravan guidelines and a lot of medium size
cars with single axle caravans will be less than 3500kg total weight.

i'm not saying some tuition wouldn't be valuable but i don't think the
new regs have been presented very clearly.

  #5 (permalink)  
Old March 12th 09, 10:18 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
DieSea
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 508
Default Towing Training/licence


"padrc66" wrote in message
...
On 12 Mar, 08:27, "Andy R" wrote:
wrote in message

...
Our son wants to borrow our van, but finds he has to have the
appropriate driving licence, which means taking a course and passing a
test. Even though it is something I never had to do, I accept that
there is an argument in favour of it. While it is not that difficult
to tow a caravan, there are definitely some skills to learn.

So said son enquires of a Milton Keynes firm that offers training
courses and finds that it takes 2.5 days and costs 799. The
subsequent test costs a further 105 - or 150, I forget which.

Can this be right? How does this compare with others' experiences? It
seems like a rip-off riding on the back of a blatant taxation-by-
licence scam.

Has anyone any experience of such courses or might recommend one? I
would venture to suggest that, while skills need to be learned to tow
a caravan, I have never come across a situation yet where I was
completely flummoxed. The real skill to learn is reversing, which is
rarely so difficult that it demands two days training. And said son
has been able to manage hooking up the car and van since he was a kid,
so there is nothing sigificant for him to learn there.

Some years ago I was involved in training drivers for the C+E (artic) test,
some students were coming straight from a car licence while others already
had cat C. The test your son will be doing is exactly the same as the C+E
test but in a smaller vehicle.
IME it took an average of 10 hours training to go from C to C+E and there's
no reason to suppose it'll be much different going from B to B+E. There are
particular exercises to practice (coupling/uncoupling, uphill start,
downhill start, angle start, gear-change, braking & reversing) otherwise the
student won't know what to expect on test day. Most of the time however was
spent getting 'normal' driving skills up to test standard with a longer
slower vehicle.

I would have thought you could get a local driving instructor to teach your
son in your car with the caravan attached but do make sure it's an
instructor who knows the B+E test 'cos it's rather different from the normal
car test. Ideally you should get an C+E instructor but ironically most of
these aren't approved driving instructors (ADI's) so although they can teach
in an artic they can't teach in a car.

Rgds

Andy R


not sure if you realise, but for a lot of car and caravan combinations
you only need a class B license (normal car) as below from

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...es/DG_10013073

car and trailer gross weight (ie train weight) less than 3500kg

and trailer gross weight less than car unladen weight

this fits in with normal caravan guidelines and a lot of medium size
cars with single axle caravans will be less than 3500kg total weight.

i'm not saying some tuition wouldn't be valuable but i don't think the
new regs have been presented very clearly.

Just a thought

Don't the Caravan Club run towing courses ,

I dont know how much the cost though

They offered me one a few years ago to reduce my insurance premiums

When I said that i'd been driving 60 foot artics since the early '60's they came
back with the reply

You still need to do our course to get the reduction , oh well

DieSea


  #6 (permalink)  
Old March 12th 09, 03:39 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
hugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,616
Default Towing Training/licence

In message
,
writes
Our son wants to borrow our van, but finds he has to have the
appropriate driving licence, which means taking a course and passing a
test. Even though it is something I never had to do, I accept that
there is an argument in favour of it. While it is not that difficult
to tow a caravan, there are definitely some skills to learn.

So said son enquires of a Milton Keynes firm that offers training
courses and finds that it takes 2.5 days and costs 799. The
subsequent test costs a further 105 - or 150, I forget which.

Can this be right? How does this compare with others' experiences? It
seems like a rip-off riding on the back of a blatant taxation-by-
licence scam.

Has anyone any experience of such courses or might recommend one? I
would venture to suggest that, while skills need to be learned to tow
a caravan, I have never come across a situation yet where I was
completely flummoxed. The real skill to learn is reversing, which is
rarely so difficult that it demands two days training. And said son
has been able to manage hooking up the car and van since he was a kid,
so there is nothing sigificant for him to learn there.

My son is in Landscaping and it's a permanent problem recruiting younger
people who can tow trailers. Yes the courses are expensive and a rip off
and it is quite easy to fail the test on something which is nothing to
do with towing.

Towing is not rocket science just a bit of common sense. How did we all
manage before this test was introduced? Did we all mow down old ladies
on the pavement by cutting the corners? We are regulation and
qualification mad in this country.
--
hugh
It may be more complicated but is it better?

  #7 (permalink)  
Old March 12th 09, 05:28 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
John Beard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Towing Training/licence

See: www.abilityuk.net


wrote in message
...
Our son wants to borrow our van, but finds he has to have the
appropriate driving licence, which means taking a course and passing a
test. Even though it is something I never had to do, I accept that
there is an argument in favour of it. While it is not that difficult
to tow a caravan, there are definitely some skills to learn.

So said son enquires of a Milton Keynes firm that offers training
courses and finds that it takes 2.5 days and costs 799. The
subsequent test costs a further 105 - or 150, I forget which.

Can this be right? How does this compare with others' experiences? It
seems like a rip-off riding on the back of a blatant taxation-by-
licence scam.

Has anyone any experience of such courses or might recommend one? I
would venture to suggest that, while skills need to be learned to tow
a caravan, I have never come across a situation yet where I was
completely flummoxed. The real skill to learn is reversing, which is
rarely so difficult that it demands two days training. And said son
has been able to manage hooking up the car and van since he was a kid,
so there is nothing sigificant for him to learn there.


  #8 (permalink)  
Old March 12th 09, 06:03 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Andy R
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 821
Default Towing Training/licence


"hugh" ] wrote in message
...
In message
,
writes
Our son wants to borrow our van, but finds he has to have the
appropriate driving licence, which means taking a course and passing a
test. Even though it is something I never had to do, I accept that
there is an argument in favour of it. While it is not that difficult
to tow a caravan, there are definitely some skills to learn.

So said son enquires of a Milton Keynes firm that offers training
courses and finds that it takes 2.5 days and costs 799. The
subsequent test costs a further 105 - or 150, I forget which.

Can this be right? How does this compare with others' experiences? It
seems like a rip-off riding on the back of a blatant taxation-by-
licence scam.

Has anyone any experience of such courses or might recommend one? I
would venture to suggest that, while skills need to be learned to tow
a caravan, I have never come across a situation yet where I was
completely flummoxed. The real skill to learn is reversing, which is
rarely so difficult that it demands two days training. And said son
has been able to manage hooking up the car and van since he was a kid,
so there is nothing sigificant for him to learn there.

My son is in Landscaping and it's a permanent problem recruiting younger
people who can tow trailers. Yes the courses are expensive and a rip off
and it is quite easy to fail the test on something which is nothing to do
with towing.

IMHO if you fail what is a very basic driving test for something 'nothing to
do with towing' you shouldn't be on the road.

Towing is not rocket science just a bit of common sense. How did we all
manage before this test was introduced? Did we all mow down old ladies on
the pavement by cutting the corners? We are regulation and qualification
mad in this country.
--
hugh
It may be more complicated but is it better?

IMHO the 'old' system of passing a test in a mini then being allowed to
drive something maybe 30ft or more long, possibly articulated, weighing over
8 tonnes with no additional training/testing was wrong. The line had to be
drawn somewhere and the current position isn't too bad although it still
allows untrained drivers to hitch up a pretty big trailer with no training.

Rgds

Andy R


  #9 (permalink)  
Old March 12th 09, 06:21 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
bill lord
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,533
Default Towing Training/licence

On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:03:50 -0000, "Andy R"
wrote:

IMHO the 'old' system of passing a test in a mini then being allowed to
drive something maybe 30ft or more long, possibly articulated, weighing over
8 tonnes with no additional training/testing was wrong. The line had to be
drawn somewhere and the current position isn't too bad although it still
allows untrained drivers to hitch up a pretty big trailer with no training.


The problem with it is that it does not allow the driver to hitch a
normal sized caravan up to a large and inherently stable vehicle.
Things like the Freelander have a max laden weight of 2500kg which
restricts the driver to a very small range of caravans and since
most's 4X4's are larger than the freelander it means that in the
future these vehicles which because of there size are ideal tow cars
are going to be increasingly out of the reach of caravnners.
If it is going to cost neary 1000 for a person to become licensed to
tow the caravan of their choice with the car of their choice then I
can see more and more people choosing to tow with cars which have a
kerbweight of about 1500kg ( which is likely to give them a max laden
weight of about 2000kg ) and towing a large family van weighing very
close to 1500kg.
I know that this is what I do but it is by choice, I keep the load as
light as possible and keep my speed down and I find the combination
that I have very stable, but for someone new to towing to do so is a
very risky business especially as the temptation to rush here ard
there is a very prevalent current way of life.
Bill Lord
I've taken a vow of poverty To annoy me send money

e-mail messages to bill dot lord at uku dot co dot uk
( Get rid of the spaces and use symbols for the hyphen at and dots )
  #10 (permalink)  
Old March 12th 09, 06:54 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Woody[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 146
Default Towing Training/licence

So the end of all this is that the OP's son does not need a B+E licence
provided the gross train weight does not exceed 3500Kg - and for most
family sized saloons - e.g. Mondeo - and a 'normal' 4-berth single axle
it will be nowhere near that.

Just as well that someone put a link from an honest training school?



--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com



 



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