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UK Caravanning (uk.rec.caravanning) A forum for the discussion of caravanning undertaken by residents of the United Kingdom, whether in the UK or abroad. It encourages the interchange of views on the merits of models of caravan, makes of tow car, accessories, caravan sites, caravan clubs, and other related topics. The term caravan is to include trailer vans, motor caravans and trailer tents.

Extension mirrors.



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old October 1st 09, 06:31 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Sam Farrell[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Extension mirrors.

I am not a carvanner but twice I have been nearly side swiped on the
motorway by a caravan suddenly cutting out in front of me. Upon overtaking
them I noticed that in each case they didn't have extension mirrors fitted
on the car. They obviously didn't have a clue that I was alongside them
when they decided to change lanes.

Are extension mirrors compulsory or just an optional extra ?

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old October 1st 09, 06:58 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Dougal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 91
Default Extension mirrors.

Sam Farrell wrote:
I am not a carvanner but twice I have been nearly side swiped on the
motorway by a caravan suddenly cutting out in front of me. Upon
overtaking them I noticed that in each case they didn't have extension
mirrors fitted on the car. They obviously didn't have a clue that I was
alongside them when they decided to change lanes.

Are extension mirrors compulsory or just an optional extra ?


Neither.

There are requirements, dependant on the tow vehicle's year of
manufacture, for the field of view needed. If you can meet those
requirements without extension mirrors you don't need them.

It's also worth pointing out that other vehicles are just as guilty of
this sort of behaviour as those towing caravans - and in my experience
even more so.

From a lane outside the caravanner you have the opportunity to
anticipate the possibility of this happening - perhaps you could hone
your anticipatory skills.
  #3 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 11:54 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
hugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,616
Default Extension mirrors.

In message , Dougal
writes
Sam Farrell wrote:
I am not a carvanner but twice I have been nearly side swiped on the
motorway by a caravan suddenly cutting out in front of me. Upon
overtaking them I noticed that in each case they didn't have extension
mirrors fitted on the car. They obviously didn't have a clue that I
was alongside them when they decided to change lanes.
Are extension mirrors compulsory or just an optional extra ?


Neither.

There are requirements, dependant on the tow vehicle's year of
manufacture, for the field of view needed. If you can meet those
requirements without extension mirrors you don't need them.

But most ordinary cars can't so 9 out of 10 need extension mirrors. My
LR Defender doesn't need them but I still use them just to get that
extra vision.
It's also worth pointing out that other vehicles are just as guilty of
this sort of behaviour as those towing caravans - and in my experience
even more so.

Especially LHD HGVs
From a lane outside the caravanner you have the opportunity to
anticipate the possibility of this happening - perhaps you could hone
your anticipatory skills.


--
hugh
It may be more complicated but is it better?

  #4 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 07:13 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Sam Farrell[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Extension mirrors.


"hugh" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Dougal
writes
Sam Farrell wrote:
I am not a carvanner but twice I have been nearly side swiped on the
motorway by a caravan suddenly cutting out in front of me. Upon
overtaking them I noticed that in each case they didn't have extension
mirrors fitted on the car. They obviously didn't have a clue that I was
alongside them when they decided to change lanes.
Are extension mirrors compulsory or just an optional extra ?


Neither.

There are requirements, dependant on the tow vehicle's year of
manufacture, for the field of view needed. If you can meet those
requirements without extension mirrors you don't need them.

But most ordinary cars can't so 9 out of 10 need extension mirrors. My LR
Defender doesn't need them but I still use them just to get that extra
vision.
It's also worth pointing out that other vehicles are just as guilty of
this sort of behaviour as those towing caravans - and in my experience
even more so.

Especially LHD HGVs
From a lane outside the caravanner you have the opportunity to anticipate
the possibility of this happening - perhaps you could hone your
anticipatory skills.


I expect people to drive sensibly no matter what they are driving or towing
or should I expect/anticpate that all caravaners will behave like idiots,
especially the ones with no mirrors.



--
hugh
It may be more complicated but is it better?


  #5 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 07:20 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Dougal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 91
Default Extension mirrors.

Sam Farrell wrote:

"hugh" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Dougal
writes
Sam Farrell wrote:
I am not a carvanner but twice I have been nearly side swiped on the
motorway by a caravan suddenly cutting out in front of me. Upon
overtaking them I noticed that in each case they didn't have
extension mirrors fitted on the car. They obviously didn't have a
clue that I was alongside them when they decided to change lanes.
Are extension mirrors compulsory or just an optional extra ?

Neither.

There are requirements, dependant on the tow vehicle's year of
manufacture, for the field of view needed. If you can meet those
requirements without extension mirrors you don't need them.

But most ordinary cars can't so 9 out of 10 need extension mirrors. My
LR Defender doesn't need them but I still use them just to get that
extra vision.


It's also worth pointing out that other vehicles are just as guilty
of this sort of behaviour as those towing caravans - and in my
experience even more so.

Especially LHD HGVs


From a lane outside the caravanner you have the opportunity to
anticipate the possibility of this happening - perhaps you could hone
your anticipatory skills.


I expect people to drive sensibly no matter what they are driving or towing
or should I expect/anticpate that all caravaners will behave like
idiots, especially the ones with no mirrors.


Get your blinkers off - caravanners are no worse than the rest of the
motoring public. There are idiots everywhere.


--
hugh
It may be more complicated but is it better?


  #6 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 08:12 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Richard Cole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 334
Default Extension mirrors.

On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 20:20:46 +0100, Dougal
wrote:

Sam Farrell wrote:
I expect people to drive sensibly no matter what they are driving or towing
or should I expect/anticpate that all caravaners will behave like
idiots, especially the ones with no mirrors.


Get your blinkers off - caravanners are no worse than the rest of the
motoring public. There are idiots everywhere.

To quote Ernest Marples, in the highway code issued when I was learning to
drive, "Treat all other road users as idiots, that way you can't go wrong".
Then about a year later he opened the M1 to prove his theory.

Richard
--
http://www.caravanningnow.co.uk
'That's right,' he said. 'We're philosophers. We think, therefore we
am.' - 'Small Gods' by Terry Pratchett
  #7 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 10:20 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
hugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,616
Default Extension mirrors.

In message , Sam
Farrell writes

"hugh" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Dougal
writes
Sam Farrell wrote:
I am not a carvanner but twice I have been nearly side swiped on
the motorway by a caravan suddenly cutting out in front of me. Upon
overtaking them I noticed that in each case they didn't have
extension mirrors fitted on the car. They obviously didn't have a
clue that I was alongside them when they decided to change lanes.
Are extension mirrors compulsory or just an optional extra ?

Neither.

There are requirements, dependant on the tow vehicle's year of
manufacture, for the field of view needed. If you can meet those
requirements without extension mirrors you don't need them.

But most ordinary cars can't so 9 out of 10 need extension mirrors.
My LR Defender doesn't need them but I still use them just to get
that extra vision.
It's also worth pointing out that other vehicles are just as guilty
of this sort of behaviour as those towing caravans - and in my
experience even more so.

Especially LHD HGVs
From a lane outside the caravanner you have the opportunity to
anticipate the possibility of this happening - perhaps you could hone
your anticipatory skills.


I expect people to drive sensibly no matter what they are driving or towing
or should I expect/anticpate that all caravaners will behave like
idiots, especially the ones with no mirrors.


If you assume that everyone else is an idiot regardless of what they
drive then you will inherently drive more safely yourself.
--
hugh
It may be more complicated but is it better?

  #8 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 10:23 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
hugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,616
Default Extension mirrors.

In message , Richard Cole
writes
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 20:20:46 +0100, Dougal
wrote:

Sam Farrell wrote:
I expect people to drive sensibly no matter what they are driving or towing
or should I expect/anticpate that all caravaners will behave like
idiots, especially the ones with no mirrors.


Get your blinkers off - caravanners are no worse than the rest of the
motoring public. There are idiots everywhere.

To quote Ernest Marples, in the highway code issued when I was learning to
drive, "Treat all other road users as idiots, that way you can't go wrong".
Then about a year later he opened the M1 to prove his theory.

Richard

Reminds me of when I was working in Coventry and the M45 had just
opened. The police arrested a man one night for doing a U-turn on it.
How did they know? They just followed his tracks in the snow- doh!
--
hugh
It may be more complicated but is it better?

  #9 (permalink)  
Old October 3rd 09, 08:24 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default Extension mirrors.

"Sam Farrell" wrote in
:

I expect people to drive sensibly no matter what they are driving or
towing or should I expect/anticpate that all caravaners will behave
like idiots, especially the ones with no mirrors.


You should expect/anticipate that all motorists will make predictable
mistakes - full stop.

A few points:

1. To be genuinely "almost side-swiped", you'd need to be alongside the
caravanner's trailer. From that position, you can be seen in the standard
car mirrors of most outfits - so towing mirrors wouldn't have made a
difference.

2. Because of stability implications, caravanners tend not to do things
suddenly. Swerving into the next lane (as opposed to gradually pulling
over) can cause no end of grief, so as a rule caravanners tend not to do
that except in case of emergency.

So I suspect that either your OP was somewhat exaggerated or you have
failed to exercise proper care and attention IMO.

Not that I condone the wrong-doing of any motorist, but I advise you to
learn how to drive defensively. Collisions hurt just as much no matter
who's fault it technically is and there are very few that the "innocent"
party could not have anticipated and taken action to prevent. In my book,
if you could have anticipated and avoided a collision in which you were
involved then you have driven without adequate care and attention. Don't
rely on others not to make mistakes since we all make them and I'm sure
you'd be thankful for those who mitigate yours.

When you're in the next lane over to the guy you're about to overtake,
you can see ahead of them. Each time ask yourself if there's any reason
why they might pull out - for example, are they closing on the vehicle in
front of them? If there is a reason, then assume they will pull out. Move
to L3 or hold back. When overtaking do so with a reasonable speed
differential so that you're in the danger zone for as short a time as
reasonably possible. Not taking these simple precautions (e.g. while
overtaking an HGV left-hooker) might one day earn you complimentary wings
and harp - and telling the keeper of the Pearly Gates that it was the
other guy's fault won't bring you back.

Lastly, learning to drive defensively is a continuous process. Each time
you're involved in a near miss, try to analyse the situation objectively
to see whether there's something you missed or something you could have
done to avoid being taken unawares. In the examples you gave, you could
see that the caravanners did not have towing mirrors and reading the road
should have let you see the reason why they pulled out. So learning from
that experience should help you predict and hence avoid similar incidents
in the future.

HTH,

Geoff
  #10 (permalink)  
Old October 3rd 09, 07:29 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Gaz[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Extension mirrors.

Geoff Lane wrote:
"Sam Farrell" wrote in
:

I expect people to drive sensibly no matter what they are driving or
towing or should I expect/anticpate that all caravaners will behave
like idiots, especially the ones with no mirrors.


You should expect/anticipate that all motorists will make predictable
mistakes - full stop.

A few points:

1. To be genuinely "almost side-swiped", you'd need to be alongside the
caravanner's trailer. From that position, you can be seen in the standard
car mirrors of most outfits - so towing mirrors wouldn't have made a
difference.

2. Because of stability implications, caravanners tend not to do things
suddenly. Swerving into the next lane (as opposed to gradually pulling
over) can cause no end of grief, so as a rule caravanners tend not to do
that except in case of emergency.

So I suspect that either your OP was somewhat exaggerated or you have
failed to exercise proper care and attention IMO.

Not that I condone the wrong-doing of any motorist, but I advise you to
learn how to drive defensively. Collisions hurt just as much no matter
who's fault it technically is and there are very few that the "innocent"
party could not have anticipated and taken action to prevent. In my book,
if you could have anticipated and avoided a collision in which you were
involved then you have driven without adequate care and attention. Don't
rely on others not to make mistakes since we all make them and I'm sure
you'd be thankful for those who mitigate yours.

When you're in the next lane over to the guy you're about to overtake,
you can see ahead of them. Each time ask yourself if there's any reason
why they might pull out - for example, are they closing on the vehicle in
front of them? If there is a reason, then assume they will pull out. Move
to L3 or hold back. When overtaking do so with a reasonable speed
differential so that you're in the danger zone for as short a time as
reasonably possible. Not taking these simple precautions (e.g. while
overtaking an HGV left-hooker) might one day earn you complimentary wings
and harp - and telling the keeper of the Pearly Gates that it was the
other guy's fault won't bring you back.

Lastly, learning to drive defensively is a continuous process. Each time
you're involved in a near miss, try to analyse the situation objectively
to see whether there's something you missed or something you could have
done to avoid being taken unawares. In the examples you gave, you could
see that the caravanners did not have towing mirrors and reading the road
should have let you see the reason why they pulled out. So learning from
that experience should help you predict and hence avoid similar incidents
in the future.

HTH,

Geoff

OK, Geoff, perhaps you can tell me how I could have avoided the most
recent collision I was involved in (first RTA in 8 years). I was
stationary at the back of the queue of morning drive-time traffic, when
the motorist coming up behind was distracted by seeing someone he knew
on the pavement and failed to stop in time to avoid running into the
back of my car. How am I guilty of driving without adequate care and
attention? You state in your post that I am guilty of this because I
didn't avoid the collision. Please explain.
 



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