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UK Caravanning (uk.rec.caravanning) A forum for the discussion of caravanning undertaken by residents of the United Kingdom, whether in the UK or abroad. It encourages the interchange of views on the merits of models of caravan, makes of tow car, accessories, caravan sites, caravan clubs, and other related topics. The term caravan is to include trailer vans, motor caravans and trailer tents.

Which Tow-car??



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old January 7th 04, 12:10 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Which Tow-car??

I'm contemplating purchasing a new deisel vehicle, I have a Peugeot
806 and am thinking of trading it in for an 807 or a Nissan
X-Trail.
I'm very impressed by the 806 for comfort and pure drive enjoyment
particularily long distance, but it's not rated for towing more
than
1300 Kgs.
However, the 807 is rated to tow 1850 Kgs, kerb weight 1750 Kgs,
Max
towball weight of 76 Kgs, It's FWD but has traction control which I

suppose might help with the occasional wet grass problem I might
encounter, comments please?
The X-trail is not a "he-man" 4WD but I guess might deal with the
occasional wet grass better than the 807.
The X-trail's kerb weight is quoted as 1525/1615 Kgs? which is
puzzling me as I don't know which figure to apply for the 85%
recomendation.
It quotes Max trailer weight at 2000Kgs?? and max load on tow ball
of
100Kgs.

I like the 806 and would prefer the 807 for everyday driving,
although
I haven't driven an X-Trail for comparison as yet.
I haven't got a caravan either and have never towed one although
I've
towed a small trailer behind a car and a trailer behind an
agricultural tractor in my younger days and am familiar the
intricacies of reversing a trailer.
I'm hoping to purchase a caravan and a tow car this spring and
would
be grateful for any further advice to help with my decision.
Regards
Bob









Ads
  #2 (permalink)  
Old January 7th 04, 05:53 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Harry Pleavin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Which Tow-car??

I think that the alternative weights are in regard to automatic as against
manual. at least hat is how they show them in the catalogue for the Honda
CRv.
"Bob" wrote in message
...
I'm contemplating purchasing a new deisel vehicle, I have a Peugeot
806 and am thinking of trading it in for an 807 or a Nissan
X-Trail.
I'm very impressed by the 806 for comfort and pure drive enjoyment
particularily long distance, but it's not rated for towing more
than
1300 Kgs.
However, the 807 is rated to tow 1850 Kgs, kerb weight 1750 Kgs,
Max
towball weight of 76 Kgs, It's FWD but has traction control which I

suppose might help with the occasional wet grass problem I might
encounter, comments please?
The X-trail is not a "he-man" 4WD but I guess might deal with the
occasional wet grass better than the 807.
The X-trail's kerb weight is quoted as 1525/1615 Kgs? which is
puzzling me as I don't know which figure to apply for the 85%
recomendation.
It quotes Max trailer weight at 2000Kgs?? and max load on tow ball
of
100Kgs.

I like the 806 and would prefer the 807 for everyday driving,
although
I haven't driven an X-Trail for comparison as yet.
I haven't got a caravan either and have never towed one although
I've
towed a small trailer behind a car and a trailer behind an
agricultural tractor in my younger days and am familiar the
intricacies of reversing a trailer.
I'm hoping to purchase a caravan and a tow car this spring and
would
be grateful for any further advice to help with my decision.
Regards
Bob











  #3 (permalink)  
Old January 8th 04, 12:08 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Peter Milnes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 191
Default Which Tow-car??

As you are about to start on the great adventure which is caravanning, I would
advise a little caution when matching up your choice of tow vehicle with a
caravan. As an example the 807 should not be used to tow any more than about 85%
of the kerbweight of the car until you have built up some experience of towing.
This would allow a caravan with a maximum loaded weight of 1490 kgs. When you
are sure that you can handle the towing safely and competently then you can
increase your caravan limit (not with the same caravan) to around 1700kgs at
most. This would be far safer than the rated figure you quote.

In the case of the X-Trail, I would limit the max caravan weight to 85% of the
lower figure to be on the safe side until you have built up your confidence.
That would give a maximum caravan loaded weight of around 1300kgs.

I tow a 1100kgs max weight caravan with a Volvo estate of about 1450kgs and
would not dream of towing the manufacturer's quoted limit of 1800kgs, as I
consider it to be unsafe as the heavier caravan could well take over the car and
cause an upset.

Hope I have been of help to you, Peter.

"Harry Pleavin" wrote in message
...
: I think that the alternative weights are in regard to automatic as against
: manual. at least hat is how they show them in the catalogue for the Honda
: CRv.
: "Bob" wrote in message
: ...
: I'm contemplating purchasing a new deisel vehicle, I have a Peugeot
: 806 and am thinking of trading it in for an 807 or a Nissan
: X-Trail.
: I'm very impressed by the 806 for comfort and pure drive enjoyment
: particularily long distance, but it's not rated for towing more
: than
: 1300 Kgs.
: However, the 807 is rated to tow 1850 Kgs, kerb weight 1750 Kgs,
: Max
: towball weight of 76 Kgs, It's FWD but has traction control which I
:
: suppose might help with the occasional wet grass problem I might
: encounter, comments please?
: The X-trail is not a "he-man" 4WD but I guess might deal with the
: occasional wet grass better than the 807.
: The X-trail's kerb weight is quoted as 1525/1615 Kgs? which is
: puzzling me as I don't know which figure to apply for the 85%
: recomendation.
: It quotes Max trailer weight at 2000Kgs?? and max load on tow ball
: of
: 100Kgs.
:
: I like the 806 and would prefer the 807 for everyday driving,
: although
: I haven't driven an X-Trail for comparison as yet.
: I haven't got a caravan either and have never towed one although
: I've
: towed a small trailer behind a car and a trailer behind an
: agricultural tractor in my younger days and am familiar the
: intricacies of reversing a trailer.
: I'm hoping to purchase a caravan and a tow car this spring and
: would
: be grateful for any further advice to help with my decision.
: Regards
: Bob
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

  #4 (permalink)  
Old January 8th 04, 07:57 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Which Tow-car??


"Peter Milnes" wrote in message
...
As you are about to start on the great adventure which is caravanning, I

would
advise a little caution when matching up your choice of tow vehicle with a
caravan. As an example the 807 should not be used to tow any more than

about 85%
of the kerbweight of the car until you have built up some experience of

towing.
This would allow a caravan with a maximum loaded weight of 1490 kgs. When

you
are sure that you can handle the towing safely and competently then you

can
increase your caravan limit (not with the same caravan) to around 1700kgs

at
most. This would be far safer than the rated figure you quote.

In the case of the X-Trail, I would limit the max caravan weight to 85% of

the
lower figure to be on the safe side until you have built up your

confidence.
That would give a maximum caravan loaded weight of around 1300kgs.

I tow a 1100kgs max weight caravan with a Volvo estate of about 1450kgs

and
would not dream of towing the manufacturer's quoted limit of 1800kgs, as I
consider it to be unsafe as the heavier caravan could well take over the

car and
cause an upset.

Hope I have been of help to you, Peter.

"Harry Pleavin" wrote in message
...
: I think that the alternative weights are in regard to automatic as

against
: manual. at least hat is how they show them in the catalogue for the

Honda
: CRv.
: "Bob" wrote in message
: ...
: I'm contemplating purchasing a new deisel vehicle, I have a Peugeot
: 806 and am thinking of trading it in for an 807 or a Nissan
: X-Trail.
: I'm very impressed by the 806 for comfort and pure drive

enjoyment
: particularily long distance, but it's not rated for towing more
: than
: 1300 Kgs.
: However, the 807 is rated to tow 1850 Kgs, kerb weight 1750 Kgs,
: Max
: towball weight of 76 Kgs, It's FWD but has traction control which

I
:
: suppose might help with the occasional wet grass problem I might
: encounter, comments please?
: The X-trail is not a "he-man" 4WD but I guess might deal with the
: occasional wet grass better than the 807.
: The X-trail's kerb weight is quoted as 1525/1615 Kgs? which is
: puzzling me as I don't know which figure to apply for the 85%
: recomendation.
: It quotes Max trailer weight at 2000Kgs?? and max load on tow

ball
: of
: 100Kgs.
:
: I like the 806 and would prefer the 807 for everyday driving,
: although
: I haven't driven an X-Trail for comparison as yet.
: I haven't got a caravan either and have never towed one although
: I've
: towed a small trailer behind a car and a trailer behind an
: agricultural tractor in my younger days and am familiar the
: intricacies of reversing a trailer.
: I'm hoping to purchase a caravan and a tow car this spring and
: would
: be grateful for any further advice to help with my decision.
: Regards
: Bob



Then you have max nose weight of the caravan, this is measured as 7% of the
max loaded weight of the van. i.e 1490kg will give a max nw of 104 kgs.
Depending on the van you choose you may be able to reduce this to near the
"75kgs of most tow cars" by carefully shifting the wieght over the caravans
axles. However, if you by a Swift Challenger - you wont be able to (I think
is due to the long forward a-frame?).

I started with a Saab Estate and fell into this trap, caravan dealers
neglect to mention this when selling you a van. I now have a Shogun -
therefore size doesnt matter :-).

If you have never towed before I would recommend one of the towing courses
that are available. My wife and I attended a 2 day CC run towing course as
neither of us had towed before. We found the infomation and the course an
execellent starter for towing.

Another point regarding caravanning - enjoy it - it is a fun - you wont look
back once you start to enjoy the freedom a caravan can give

Kind Regards


Mike



  #5 (permalink)  
Old January 8th 04, 12:41 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
bill lord
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 317
Default Which Tow-car??

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 01:08:43 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Milnes"
wrote:

I tow a 1100kgs max weight caravan with a Volvo estate of about 1450kgs and
would not dream of towing the manufacturer's quoted limit of 1800kgs, as I
consider it to be unsafe as the heavier caravan could well take over the car and
cause an upset.


I have a similar setup of a Volvo with a 1486kg kerb weight and again
tated to 1800kg and tow with absolute stability at about 1300kg,and I
would not wish to tow anything heavier though I have no doubts that it
would continue to be stable right up to my caravan's MTPLM of 1450kg.
There is lots of good advice in Peter's message as a whole, in the end
towing weights are not about what is legal but about what is safe and
good practice in matching your vehicle and your caravan and in loading
the caravan to give an even spread of weight about the caravan and a
nose weight which is as high as the vehicle can adequately handle.


(remove the spam to reply)
I've taken a vow of poverty, to annoy me send money
  #6 (permalink)  
Old January 8th 04, 12:41 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
bill lord
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 317
Default Which Tow-car??

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:57:09 -0000, "Mike"
wrote:

Then you have max nose weight of the caravan, this is measured as 7% of the
max loaded weight of the van. i.e 1490kg will give a max nw of 104 kgs.
Depending on the van you choose you may be able to reduce this to near the
"75kgs of most tow cars" by carefully shifting the wieght over the caravans
axles. However, if you by a Swift Challenger - you wont be able to (I think
is due to the long forward a-frame?).


Whatever happens you MUST reduce it to whatever the maximum allowable
for your towcar. I prefer a noseweight that is just below the
noseweight max for my car for no other eason than it is easier to meet
this target than be forced to move things around each time I load the
van to make sure that I do not exceed the Max permissable.


(remove the spam to reply)
I've taken a vow of poverty, to annoy me send money
  #7 (permalink)  
Old January 8th 04, 01:06 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Which Tow-car??


"bill lord" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:57:09 -0000, "Mike"
wrote:

Then you have max nose weight of the caravan, this is measured as 7% of

the
max loaded weight of the van. i.e 1490kg will give a max nw of 104 kgs.
Depending on the van you choose you may be able to reduce this to near

the
"75kgs of most tow cars" by carefully shifting the wieght over the

caravans
axles. However, if you by a Swift Challenger - you wont be able to (I

think
is due to the long forward a-frame?).


Whatever happens you MUST reduce it to whatever the maximum allowable
for your towcar. I prefer a noseweight that is just below the
noseweight max for my car for no other eason than it is easier to meet
this target than be forced to move things around each time I load the
van to make sure that I do not exceed the Max permissable.


(remove the spam to reply)
I've taken a vow of poverty, to annoy me send money


Yes , Sorry I should have said what you said and not used the word near...


  #8 (permalink)  
Old January 8th 04, 04:42 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
www.ttdown.com
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Which Tow-car??

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 13:41:52 +0000, bill lord
wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 08:57:09 -0000, "Mike"
wrote:

Then you have max nose weight of the caravan, this is measured as 7% of the
max loaded weight of the van. i.e 1490kg will give a max nw of 104 kgs.
Depending on the van you choose you may be able to reduce this to near the
"75kgs of most tow cars" by carefully shifting the wieght over the caravans
axles. However, if you by a Swift Challenger - you wont be able to (I think
is due to the long forward a-frame?).


Whatever happens you MUST reduce it to whatever the maximum allowable
for your towcar. I prefer a noseweight that is just below the
noseweight max for my car for no other eason than it is easier to meet
this target than be forced to move things around each time I load the
van to make sure that I do not exceed the Max permissable.


Also don't forget the max for the tow hitch - Swift Challenger 400 =
75 kg


Roy
  #9 (permalink)  
Old January 8th 04, 07:39 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Alan Gustard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default Which Tow-car??

Confusion He says......
And here's me, just hooks up and rolls.
There is no information on the VIN plate of my vehicle regarding weights,
kerb, axle or otherwise. (Imported Toyota Masterace, similar to SpaceVan)
Toyota main agent threw up his hands in horror at the thought of towing
with one of these vehicles, and refused to discuss the possibility of
manufacturing a towing kit.
The results of a google search gave a number of sources for towing kits
and I wound up with one from Watling Engineers of St Albans. Also found a
web site dedicated to ownership and maintenance, and a list of spare part
stockists.
It tows without too much bother, apart from occasional overheating.
It is a two-wheel drive, 2litre turbo diesel with automatic box.
My van weighs 15cwt, but there are reports on the web site of owners who
have towed two axle monstrosities around the Swiss Alps.
Don't worry, the Vehicle Inspectorate (aka Traffic Commissioners) are too
busy bothering the hell out of Artic and Coach drivers to have much time
for the poor caravanner, as long as he doesn't draw attention to himself
by blatantly exceeding the speed limit, or otherwise behaving badly.

Alan G

--
Alan Gustard
Cramlington
Northumberland
  #10 (permalink)  
Old January 9th 04, 02:00 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Stewart R
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Which Tow-car??

I think that the alternative weights are in regard to automatic as
against manual. at least hat is how they show them in the catalogue
for the Honda


That can't be the case in this instance as the diesel only comes in
manual. I think it's to do with the trim spec, i.e. SE, Sport, SVE or
T-SPEC and any optional accessories fitted, e.g. running steps and
bumper bars.

That brings me on to something I suspect is a bit simplistic about the
85% of kerb weight guideline in the case of the X-Trail and presumably
many other vehicles. Taking the diesel X-Trail as an example, my
understanding is the basic 2.2dci SE has a kerb weight of 1520kg,
whereas the 2.2dci T-SPEC loaded with all the options has a kerb weight
of 1629kg. These vehicles have the same engine with the same gearbox, in
the same body on the same chassis and have the same 2000kg max tow
weight. It's just that the T-spec is weighed down with extras like
electrically adjustable leather seats, extra lamps, brake limited slip
differential, etc, etc, that make its kerb weight heavier (and reduces
its maximum payload accordingly - the fully loaded max gross vehicle
weight is 2050kg for both the SE and the T-SPEC). Electronic stability
controls aside, it makes no sense to me that (adhering to the 85% guide)
the T-SPEC should be judged suitable to tow a caravan 0.85*(1629-1520) =
77kg heavier than the SE just because its kerb weight is inflated by its
heavier trim. Surely loading the SE with 100kg of extra people/luggage
(even sacks of potatoes) achieves exactly the same result. 100kg is
probably 2 large kids and all their clobber but I've never heard it said
that the occupancy of the tow car should be taken into account when
assessing its 85%. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not decrying the 85%
guideline. I think its very sensible and useful, especially to beginners
like me. I just think it should be applied with a modicum of common
sense.

I think the above X-Trail figures are factually correct but I can't
guarantee them and I'd recommend anyone check for themselves before
acting on them.

BTW. The X-Trail 2.2dci is on my shortlist for when I get my first
caravan later this year.

Stewart R.






 



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