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Insulation for water pump


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  #1 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd 04, 05:33 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Mary Fisher
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Posts: 3,847
Default Insulation for water pump

Caravanning in the snow is delightful. Cold, yes, but we kept our catalytic
heater on all the time and the roof vent slightly open and it was very
comfortable in our tiny 'van. In the mornings I had to scrape ice off the
inside of the single paned glass windows which weren't insulated with
clipped-on-outside car rugs but that didn't take long. We keep slippers to
change into but stopped botheing with them, the floor area is so small that
it's dead easy to simply sweep it. Hot meals were no problem either so when
we'd been busy with sheep or cows we could warm up quickly. A hot water
bottle in the bed was hardly necessary, just another comfort.

But I'm glad the 'van is permanently on our daughter's farm, if we'd had to
tow it up and down those Welsh mountains last Thursday when the snow was
coming down so hard we could hardly see the road and the very steep and
narrow road to the farm was iced up and needed a run at it we'd have been in
trouble. We'd have had no chance towing it to its position along the farm
track which had snow-hidden edges.

The worst task was having to thaw out the plumbing every morning. The pipe
and tank were brought into the awning to keep from freezing but the pump was
solid when we got up. Spouse is thinking about building a removable
insulated box for it. Has anyone who has read as far as this done such a
thing?

Mary


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd 04, 06:09 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Dave Fawthrop
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Posts: 1,941
Default Insulation for water pump

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:33:21 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

| Caravanning in the snow is delightful.

| The worst task was having to thaw out the plumbing every morning. The pipe
| and tank were brought into the awning to keep from freezing but the pump was
| solid when we got up. Spouse is thinking about building a removable
| insulated box for it. Has anyone who has read as far as this done such a
| thing?

We have moved the water bottle *inside* the van in a cupboard by the door.
OK if one has room inside the van.

Dave F

  #3 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd 04, 06:46 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Simon Hawthorne
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Posts: 65
Default Insulation for water pump

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:33:21 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


But I'm glad the 'van is permanently on our daughter's farm, if we'd had to
tow it up and down those Welsh mountains last Thursday when the snow was
coming down so hard we could hardly see the road and the very steep and
narrow road to the farm was iced up and needed a run at it we'd have been in
trouble.



Hi Mary

I had to leave my van at a site in Betws-y-coed - because of that deep
snow - going back on Saturday to pick it up. The site was up a real
steep hill - and the snow was 9" deep!

I used my water throughout - and have some hot water tank lagging
which I bungee around my aquaroll - and some of that grey pipe
insulation over the pipe form the van to the pump - and touch wood, it
hasn't frozen - and I've used vans for several years - throughout the
winter...

Also worth leaving any lower locker doors open where possible to make
sure warm air circulates to the water pipes under the seats...

Simon
  #4 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd 04, 06:52 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
bill lord
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 291
Default Insulation for water pump

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:33:21 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

Caravanning in the snow is delightful. Cold, yes, but we kept our catalytic
heater on all the time and the roof vent slightly open and it was very
comfortable in our tiny 'van. In the mornings I had to scrape ice off the
inside of the single paned glass windows which weren't insulated with
clipped-on-outside car rugs but that didn't take long. We keep slippers to
change into but stopped botheing with them, the floor area is so small that
it's dead easy to simply sweep it. Hot meals were no problem either so when
we'd been busy with sheep or cows we could warm up quickly. A hot water
bottle in the bed was hardly necessary, just another comfort.


It sounds like you've had a real back to nature change of scenery. We
love caravanning in the snow.

But I'm glad the 'van is permanently on our daughter's farm, if we'd had to
tow it up and down those Welsh mountains last Thursday when the snow was
coming down so hard we could hardly see the road and the very steep and
narrow road to the farm was iced up and needed a run at it we'd have been in
trouble. We'd have had no chance towing it to its position along the farm
track which had snow-hidden edges.


You didn't need the tractor to pull you up then?

The worst task was having to thaw out the plumbing every morning. The pipe
and tank were brought into the awning to keep from freezing but the pump was
solid when we got up. Spouse is thinking about building a removable
insulated box for it. Has anyone who has read as far as this done such a
thing?


A fish tank heater put into the tank when you bring the water tank
into the awning will keep both the pipe and the tank clear of ice.
Previous, to getting a van with an internal tank we used to wrap the
whole lot up with bubble wrap and make sure that the bubble wrap
jacket on the tank covered both the tank and the pipe. Making sure
that the tank is completely filled up with fresh water each night also
helps since it is quite a large body of water which is above freezing
that wil keep it's surroundings at a similar temperature.
(remove the spam to reply)
I've taken a vow of poverty, to annoy me send money
  #5 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd 04, 07:23 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 338
Default Insulation for water pump

Mary, when I used to use the caravan long term in the winter I tried
cocooning the water container and pump with insulation but this only worked
if the frost was not long standing or penetrating. For continued frost I do
not think there is any answer other than having a flask of hot water
prepared at night and then use it in the morning to thaw out the pump etc..
Biggest problem for me was the drain pipes under the caravan freezing - even
blowing hot air with the fan heater did not thaw them.
I also kept the gas (used butane in these days) in a hay box but that again
was of little help - had to use hot water to get gas flowing in morning.


"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...


The worst task was having to thaw out the plumbing every morning. The pipe
and tank were brought into the awning to keep from freezing but the pump

was
solid when we got up. Spouse is thinking about building a removable
insulated box for it. Has anyone who has read as far as this done such a
thing?

Mary




  #6 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd 04, 07:32 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Mary Fisher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,847
Default Insulation for water pump


But I'm glad the 'van is permanently on our daughter's farm, if we'd had

to
tow it up and down those Welsh mountains last Thursday when the snow was
coming down so hard we could hardly see the road and the very steep and
narrow road to the farm was iced up and needed a run at it we'd have been

in
trouble.



Hi Mary


Hello Simon,

I had to leave my van at a site in Betws-y-coed - because of that deep
snow - going back on Saturday to pick it up. The site was up a real
steep hill - and the snow was 9" deep!


We were in south west Wales. We managed to get off the farm on Saturday to
visit an e-mail friend fairly close by but wouldn't have been able to with
the 'van.

I used my water throughout - and have some hot water tank lagging
which I bungee around my aquaroll - and some of that grey pipe
insulation over the pipe form the van to the pump - and touch wood, it
hasn't frozen - and I've used vans for several years - throughout the
winter...


The pipe wasn't the problem - it was the pump.

You must remember that ours is a 10' 'van, an early 1960s one with no
electricity. The pump is a manual (well, pedal) mechanical, aluminium bodied
one, under the floor and open to the atmosphere underneath.

Also worth leaving any lower locker doors open where possible to make
sure warm air circulates to the water pipes under the seats...


Locker doors?

Waterpipes under seats?

You're talking hi-tech :-)

But thanks anyway!

Mary

Simon



  #7 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd 04, 07:39 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Mary Fisher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,847
Default Insulation for water pump


"bill lord" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:33:21 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

Caravanning in the snow is delightful. Cold, yes, but we kept our

catalytic
heater on all the time and the roof vent slightly open and it was very
comfortable in our tiny 'van. In the mornings I had to scrape ice off the
inside of the single paned glass windows which weren't insulated with
clipped-on-outside car rugs but that didn't take long. We keep slippers

to
change into but stopped botheing with them, the floor area is so small

that
it's dead easy to simply sweep it. Hot meals were no problem either so

when
we'd been busy with sheep or cows we could warm up quickly. A hot water
bottle in the bed was hardly necessary, just another comfort.


It sounds like you've had a real back to nature change of scenery. We
love caravanning in the snow.

But I'm glad the 'van is permanently on our daughter's farm, if we'd had

to
tow it up and down those Welsh mountains last Thursday when the snow was
coming down so hard we could hardly see the road and the very steep and
narrow road to the farm was iced up and needed a run at it we'd have been

in
trouble. We'd have had no chance towing it to its position along the farm
track which had snow-hidden edges.


You didn't need the tractor to pull you up then?


They couldn't start the tractor. If we hadn't been able to get up the hill
we'd have had to walk. The Land Rover had gone off the edge of one of their
tracks and was leaning over the steep incline, only a tree had stopped its
fall. We used a chain block to get its front ns wheel onto the track and the
4wd to pull the rest of the Drover onto the track. It was a time-consuming
and energy expending (which I need) exercise. We had to move the Drover so
that we could shift the 'van from it's original position to where I wanted
it.

The worst task was having to thaw out the plumbing every morning. The

pipe
and tank were brought into the awning to keep from freezing but the pump

was
solid when we got up. Spouse is thinking about building a removable
insulated box for it. Has anyone who has read as far as this done such a
thing?


A fish tank heater put into the tank when you bring the water tank
into the awning will keep both the pipe and the tank clear of ice.


I'm really sorry, I intended to make it clear that we didn't have a problem
with the tank (Aquaroll) and delivery pipe. The heat from the hens seemed to
keep them from freezing. What froze - hard - was the residual water in the
aluminium bodies foot PUMP.

Previous, to getting a van with an internal tank we used to wrap the
whole lot up with bubble wrap and make sure that the bubble wrap
jacket on the tank covered both the tank and the pipe. Making sure
that the tank is completely filled up with fresh water each night also
helps since it is quite a large body of water which is above freezing
that wil keep it's surroundings at a similar temperature.


See above.

We also had a play with the framework of a porch on Monday and Spouse is
very enthusiastic, it looks as though it could be extremely useful.

Mary


  #8 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd 04, 07:47 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Mary Fisher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,847
Default Insulation for water pump


"Stewart" wrote in message
...
Mary, when I used to use the caravan long term in the winter I tried
cocooning the water container and pump with insulation but this only

worked
if the frost was not long standing or penetrating. For continued frost I

do
not think there is any answer other than having a flask of hot water
prepared at night and then use it in the morning to thaw out the pump

etc..
Biggest problem for me was the drain pipes under the caravan freezing -

even
blowing hot air with the fan heater did not thaw them.
I also kept the gas (used butane in these days) in a hay box but that

again
was of little help - had to use hot water to get gas flowing in morning.


Thanks, Stewart, but how did you cocoon the pump?

We always make flasks of tea at night for morning use and have a kettle full
ready to heat for coffee (coffee in the morning is a great luxury we keep
for Sundays and when we're away - to give us a kick start).

The drain pipe is no problem because most of the waste water doesn't go down
the sink but is thrown out directly from the bowl - you must remember this
is private (our daughter's) land.

There's no electricity available even if we had a fan heater! We run on
propane gas (after experiencing frozen butane in Galloway one Easter and
having to heat water on a charcoal fire!) which runs the heater and one gas
lamp as well as the cooker.

Our problem is the freezing metal bodied pump and how to insulate it from
the most extreme low temperatures. Spouse doesn't want simply to coat it
with thick pu foam because he might well want to access it at some time,
that means that he's thinking of making a removable box which will contain a
profiled insulation material, probaby pu because that's his favourite
material of all time at the moment. It certainly has been a superb
building/filling/insulating material when he's re-built both our 'vans.

Mary


"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...


The worst task was having to thaw out the plumbing every morning. The

pipe
and tank were brought into the awning to keep from freezing but the pump

was
solid when we got up. Spouse is thinking about building a removable
insulated box for it. Has anyone who has read as far as this done such a
thing?

Mary






  #9 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd 04, 08:56 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
kqr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 449
Default Insulation for water pump

In article ,
wrote
Caravanning in the snow is delightful. Cold, yes, but we kept our catalytic
heater on all the time and the roof vent slightly open and it was very
comfortable in our tiny 'van. In the mornings I had to scrape ice off the
inside of the single paned glass windows which weren't insulated with
clipped-on-outside car rugs but that didn't take long. We keep slippers to
change into but stopped botheing with them, the floor area is so small that
it's dead easy to simply sweep it. Hot meals were no problem either so when
we'd been busy with sheep or cows we could warm up quickly. A hot water
bottle in the bed was hardly necessary, just another comfort.

But I'm glad the 'van is permanently on our daughter's farm, if we'd had to
tow it up and down those Welsh mountains last Thursday when the snow was
coming down so hard we could hardly see the road and the very steep and
narrow road to the farm was iced up and needed a run at it we'd have been in
trouble. We'd have had no chance towing it to its position along the farm
track which had snow-hidden edges.

The worst task was having to thaw out the plumbing every morning. The pipe
and tank were brought into the awning to keep from freezing but the pump was
solid when we got up. Spouse is thinking about building a removable
insulated box for it. Has anyone who has read as far as this done such a
thing?
Mary


I do the following:

1] Use a 2" thick sheet of Polystyrene with a waterproofed piece
of 1/4" ply stuck to one side. The AR stands on the Polystyrene
bit. I have a 3 sided box line with sections of a Roll Mat that
I cut to size. In the top I cut a hole for the pump assy to pass
through. Ply exterior is painted with Dulux Weathershield. The
interior is impervious to moisture. Drop the box over the AR and
drop the pump in the top.

2] Standard pipe insulation on the pump cable etc.

3] A thick cardboard flap 1'6" Long x 1' wide covered with clingfilm
and wrapped round with Duct Tape is placed over the attachment point
and stuck to the side of the van with paper masking tape.

My water heater vent is adjacent to the water inlet point so warm air
rising is restricted by the 'flap' and keeps enough of the chill off
the inlet point. I also have a fish tank water heater [mains] which
can be placed int he AR before the pump, and the lead is passed via a
floor vent underneath and adjacent to the water heater - fed from a
250V mains socket via a standard timer. I set the timer to say 0400
and on/off every 20 mins till 0800. I also site my van so that the
side with the water equipt attached is facing South to get the first
rays of any sun that is available. I have done this for 2 winters now
and only once had a real need for the heater.


  #10 (permalink)  
Old March 3rd 04, 10:56 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
bill lord
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 291
Default Insulation for water pump

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:39:26 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

I'm really sorry, I intended to make it clear that we didn't have a problem
with the tank (Aquaroll) and delivery pipe. The heat from the hens seemed to
keep them from freezing. What froze - hard - was the residual water in the
aluminium bodies foot PUMP.


Thinking laterally would a hot water bottle put on top of the pump
inside the caravan do the job.


(remove the spam to reply)
I've taken a vow of poverty, to annoy me send money
 


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