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UK Caravanning (uk.rec.caravanning) A forum for the discussion of caravanning undertaken by residents of the United Kingdom, whether in the UK or abroad. It encourages the interchange of views on the merits of models of caravan, makes of tow car, accessories, caravan sites, caravan clubs, and other related topics. The term caravan is to include trailer vans, motor caravans and trailer tents.

HYMER 530 SWING KZ IS IT LEGAL?



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old June 24th 04, 06:48 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Guy Barnes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default HYMER 530 SWING KZ IS IT LEGAL?

Thanks for your time,

Thinking of buying this van from Lowdham motors in Nottingham, single axel
overall width is 7ft 8 in body length is 19ft 8in overall height is 8ft
7in. MRO 1308.7 kg

My towcar is a new Fiat Ulysse 2.2 Diesel MPV kerb weight 1750kg

Is this a legal setup.

Thanks,



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  #2 (permalink)  
Old June 24th 04, 07:15 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
The Beggar's Opera
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Posts: 3
Default HYMER 530 SWING KZ IS IT LEGAL?


"Guy Barnes" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your time,

Thinking of buying this van from Lowdham motors in Nottingham, single axel
overall width is 7ft 8 in body length is 19ft 8in overall height is 8ft
7in. MRO 1308.7 kg

My towcar is a new Fiat Ulysse 2.2 Diesel MPV kerb weight 1750kg

Is this a legal setup.

Thanks,




Yes....but

As far as I can recall, the Ulysse has a considerably lower manufacturer's
towing limit than it's Peugeot and Citroen siblings.

I *think* that it's about 1325kg - in which case you're OK - not so much for
the actual ability of the car to pull the van, but with regard to the
trainweight - i.e., the maximum permissable total of laden vehicle plus
trailer.

The trainweight comprises the weight of the car (in your case 1750 kg) plus
the loading allowance for passengers (usually around 650 kg for that type of
car - could be more, could well be less) plus the manufacturers official
towing limit

Based on the above figures you would arrive at a gross trainweight of 3725
kg

Obviously, if that *was* the official yrainweight, as stamped on the VIN
plate, a heavier caravan would exceed it. Trainweights used to be one of
those arcane things that Police took very little notice of - but in these
days of motorist persecution you can bet that every traffic cop has recently
been given a special course on how to spot trainweight infringements.


  #3 (permalink)  
Old June 24th 04, 08:56 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
SkodaMan
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Posts: 37
Default HYMER 530 SWING KZ IS IT LEGAL?

Be careful here. The MRO or Mass in Running Order is the weight of the
caravan without any essential habitation equipment (gas bottles etc),
personal effects, or optional equipment. These extra payload margins added
to the MRO give the MTPLM (something like Maximum Technically Permitted Load
in Mass) which is the maximum weight the axles can legally take.

You need to find out what the MTPLM is - Lowdham Leisureworld should be able
to tell you,

if it isn't in the brochure. I suspect this is likely to be in the region
of 1650kg or even more. If the max weight is around this figure it will be
about 95% of the kerbweight of your car. The recommended figure to aim for
is 85%.

You must then compare this to the maximum towing capacity of your Ulyssee as
well as considering the maximum train weight (i.e car weight plus caravan
weight) which will be on the VIN plate of the towcar.

The boys in blue are tightening up on this sort of issue at the present time
so beware!

"Guy Barnes" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your time,

Thinking of buying this van from Lowdham motors in Nottingham, single axel
overall width is 7ft 8 in body length is 19ft 8in overall height is 8ft
7in. MRO 1308.7 kg

My towcar is a new Fiat Ulysse 2.2 Diesel MPV kerb weight 1750kg

Is this a legal setup.

Thanks,





  #4 (permalink)  
Old June 24th 04, 09:38 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 870
Default HYMER 530 SWING KZ IS IT LEGAL?

"Guy Barnes" wrote in
:

Thanks for your time,

Thinking of buying this van from Lowdham motors in Nottingham, single
axel overall width is 7ft 8 in body length is 19ft 8in overall height
is 8ft 7in. MRO 1308.7 kg

My towcar is a new Fiat Ulysse 2.2 Diesel MPV kerb weight 1750kg

Is this a legal setup.


Strictly, no. The maximum width allowed behind a car or goods vehicle
with MGW up to 3.5 tonnes is 2.3m (7ft 6in). So your proposed van is
about two inches too wide. Having said that, I've not heard of anyone
being pulled for that (but that doesn't mean no-one has or that the
authorities won't clamp down on over-width vans in the future).

Perhaps more serious is the weight. With an MRO of 1310-ish kg, you'll
have an MTPLM well in excess of that by the time you add your stuff. The
Fiat Ulysse is based on the same chassis as my Dispatch van, which has a
towing limit of 1300kg with a 2.0HDi engine. You may want to check your
vehicle handbook very carefully to make sure that the trailer is within
your vehicle's towing limit and max gross train weight before buying.

HTH,

--
Geoff Lane
Cornwall, UK
  #5 (permalink)  
Old June 25th 04, 11:57 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
SkodaMan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default HYMER 530 SWING KZ IS IT LEGAL?

I also thought there was a potential problem with the pysical size (notably
width) of the Hymer. If this is the case (and I do not doubt you Geoff) then
why is Lowdham Leisureworld selling the vans in the first place if they do
not conform to UK law?

"Geoff Lane" wrote in message
...
"Guy Barnes" wrote in
:

Thanks for your time,

Thinking of buying this van from Lowdham motors in Nottingham, single
axel overall width is 7ft 8 in body length is 19ft 8in overall height
is 8ft 7in. MRO 1308.7 kg

My towcar is a new Fiat Ulysse 2.2 Diesel MPV kerb weight 1750kg

Is this a legal setup.


Strictly, no. The maximum width allowed behind a car or goods vehicle
with MGW up to 3.5 tonnes is 2.3m (7ft 6in). So your proposed van is
about two inches too wide. Having said that, I've not heard of anyone
being pulled for that (but that doesn't mean no-one has or that the
authorities won't clamp down on over-width vans in the future).

Perhaps more serious is the weight. With an MRO of 1310-ish kg, you'll
have an MTPLM well in excess of that by the time you add your stuff. The
Fiat Ulysse is based on the same chassis as my Dispatch van, which has a
towing limit of 1300kg with a 2.0HDi engine. You may want to check your
vehicle handbook very carefully to make sure that the trailer is within
your vehicle's towing limit and max gross train weight before buying.

HTH,

--
Geoff Lane
Cornwall, UK



  #6 (permalink)  
Old June 25th 04, 02:21 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Christian McArdle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 601
Default HYMER 530 SWING KZ IS IT LEGAL?

I also thought there was a potential problem with the pysical size
(notably
width) of the Hymer. If this is the case (and I do not doubt you Geoff)

then
why is Lowdham Leisureworld selling the vans in the first place if they do
not conform to UK law?


Who says you're not towing with a 4300kg Transit or Sprinter?

Christian.



  #7 (permalink)  
Old June 25th 04, 03:29 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
SkodaMan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default HYMER 530 SWING KZ IS IT LEGAL?

Fair comment until you consider the prospective buyer in this case does not
have a Transit or Sprinter.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
t...
I also thought there was a potential problem with the pysical size

(notably
width) of the Hymer. If this is the case (and I do not doubt you Geoff)

then
why is Lowdham Leisureworld selling the vans in the first place if they

do
not conform to UK law?


Who says you're not towing with a 4300kg Transit or Sprinter?

Christian.





  #8 (permalink)  
Old June 25th 04, 05:10 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Les Milner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default HYMER 530 SWING KZ IS IT LEGAL?

you will find that every one who is taking dosh off of you will say its
"a"OK until your insurance co. has to pay you, or who ever you hit, then im
afraid that is the time that they will all tell you that you should have
known the law. over 7ft. 6inch wide, commercial vehicle tug only.
take care out there
"appy "vanin
Les....email: ..
drop NOSPAM to reply

  #9 (permalink)  
Old June 25th 04, 05:26 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Geoff Lane
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 870
Default HYMER 530 SWING KZ IS IT LEGAL?

"SkodaMan" wrote in
:

I also thought there was a potential problem with the pysical size
(notably width) of the Hymer. If this is the case (and I do not doubt
you Geoff) then why is Lowdham Leisureworld selling the vans in the
first place if they do not conform to UK law?


Perhaps they don't know what you intend to pull it with. FWIW, it's
perfectly legal behind a vehicle over 3.5 tonnes MGW. Take a look at
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group.../dft_roads_pdf
_506866.pdf the Department For Transport factsheet, for which I've created
http://tinyurl.com/3b9u2 The "Dimensions" section gives you the maximum
width and length for tugs either side of 3.5 tonnes MGW.

Perhaps you should ask them to put in writing that the trailer is a good
match for your towcar and that your towcar can legally tow it in this
country.

HTH,

--
Geoff Lane
Cornwall, UK
  #10 (permalink)  
Old June 25th 04, 07:04 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
mhlife
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default HYMER 530 SWING KZ IS IT LEGAL?


"Les Milner" wrote in message
...
you will find that every one who is taking dosh off of you will say its
"a"OK until your insurance co. has to pay you, or who ever you hit, then

im
afraid that is the time that they will all tell you that you should have
known the law. over 7ft. 6inch wide, commercial vehicle tug only.
take care out there
"appy "vanin
Les....email: ..
drop NOSPAM to reply


Please!!!! - let's stop all this uninformed bollox!

EVERY Hymer imported by Lowdham is 100% legal in the UK.

The wider widths do not start in the Hymer range until the 560 series.


 



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