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UK Caravanning (uk.rec.caravanning) A forum for the discussion of caravanning undertaken by residents of the United Kingdom, whether in the UK or abroad. It encourages the interchange of views on the merits of models of caravan, makes of tow car, accessories, caravan sites, caravan clubs, and other related topics. The term caravan is to include trailer vans, motor caravans and trailer tents.

Chip'n' pin, again.....



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old July 2nd 04, 08:44 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Nigel Crompton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default Chip'n' pin, again.....

Just got our new Bank of Scotland chip & pin cards. The accompanying
documentation infers that these will work in la belle France, I'm
going to try and get definate confirmatiuon out of them, but in thre
meantime are there any B.O.S card users out there who've tried it ?

I have to say I'm rather dubious.....
Ads
  #2 (permalink)  
Old July 2nd 04, 09:35 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Lenny
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Posts: 989
Default Chip'n' pin, again.....

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 21:44:01 +0100, Nigel Crompton
wrote:

Just got our new Bank of Scotland chip & pin cards. The accompanying
documentation infers that these will work in la belle France, I'm
going to try and get definate confirmatiuon out of them, but in thre
meantime are there any B.O.S card users out there who've tried it ?

I have to say I'm rather dubious.....



If its any help my Tesco one works in Calais (& Prague), but you may
find outsde of the main tourist areas it may not. The French are
supposed to have all their systems upgraded by the end of 2004.

Lenny
  #3 (permalink)  
Old July 2nd 04, 11:02 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Andrew Simpson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Chip'n' pin, again.....


"Nigel Crompton" wrote in message
...
Just got our new Bank of Scotland chip & pin cards. The accompanying
documentation infers that these will work in la belle France, I'm
going to try and get definate confirmatiuon out of them, but in thre
meantime are there any B.O.S card users out there who've tried it ?

I have to say I'm rather dubious.....


Nigel,

France have had chip & pin for many years and if you google chip & pin
france you will find many articles about the success over there to combat
fraud. However there is always one snag and that is because they use
different technology to process chip & pin. Therefore your card will work
but you will simply have to sign instead. Cash machines will work fine
where you see the visa / mastercard / maestro / cirrus logo (depending on
what is on your card).

Andrew.


  #4 (permalink)  
Old July 3rd 04, 12:10 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Nigel Crompton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default Chip'n' pin, again.....

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 23:02:53 GMT, "Andrew Simpson"
wrote:


France have had chip & pin for many years and if you google chip & pin


Yep, thanks, knew all that, I should've been more specific, like,
"Will I be able to buy fuel at unattended pumps using my new chip and
pin card ?"

Cheers 'n' Beers


  #5 (permalink)  
Old July 4th 04, 06:52 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
James
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Posts: 4
Default Chip'n' pin, again.....

" Nigel,

France have had chip & pin for many years and if you google chip & pin
france you will find many articles about the success over there to combat
fraud. However there is always one snag and that is because they use
different technology to process chip & pin. Therefore your card will work
but you will simply have to sign instead. Cash machines will work fine
where you see the visa / mastercard / maestro / cirrus logo (depending on
what is on your card).

Andrew.


Yep your right - Magstrip cards too work above as described. Because
UK Chipped cards are retaining a magstrip they can still be cloned. In
fact I see no reason why a new type chipped card can't be cloned, the
PIN obtained by hook or by crook and the cloned chipped card used at a
non-chip compliant ATM at home or abroad.

Have a look at the following.
First Direct
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3862487.stm)

The lowest common denominator above is a PIN. If you're not going to
use a PIN to withdraw cash at an ATM with a high-value credit card
then why would you want or need one?

What's not very clear regarding Chip & PIN is that you don't have to
have a PIN, there's such a thing as a Chip & Signature Card. The chip
is checked to make sure the card isn't counterfeit and then a
transaction slip is produced for the cardholder to sign.

(From BBC, Radio 4):
"Customers who would rather carry on signing receipts can carry on
doing so with a ‘chip and signature' card. These need to be ordered
from a customer's card issuer in advance.

Credit and debit card customers should get in touch with their bank or
card issuer if they have specific questions about chip and pin or if
they would prefer a ‘chip and signature' card."

Details at:
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/...20040504.shtml)

From another forum):
If a PIN transaction is made on my card after it has been stolen, how
do I deny that it was me who made the transaction? Anyone with access
to the PIN becomes an authorised user. I don't regard PIN codes as
being overly secure, and this might be a step backwards in security."

The Chip & PIN scheme has the effect of shifting liability to the
consumer. " As the bank's will say that any ‘phantom withdrawals' are
down to the customer – because of course Chip and PIN is secure. This
is becoming a problem in France and elsewhere in Europe, where people
are being deprived of compensation (and sometimes arrested) after
complaining about phantom withdrawals/CC charges."

So although depending on a chip – rather than a magnetic stripe – is
more secure, if you do become the victim of shoulder surfing the new
scheme might mean you're in even more danger.

(An extract from Terms & Conditions)
‘You will be liable to us for all losses incurred as a consequence of
any disclosures of the PIN to any person other than any Additional
Cardholder. If the use of the Card has been by way of PIN, such use
shall be presumed to have been authorised by you.'

France is used as an example of the success of Chip & PIN, yet fraud
at cash machines, where PINs are used exclusively in the UK climbed by
37% last year. The following URLs demonstrates the growth in PIN based
fraud, victims concerns, and some physical security measures take at
ATMs.

Aberdeen (http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk...entPK=10447906)

Coventry
(http://www.coventryobserver.co.uk/ne...lt1.asp?id=511)

Cleveland
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/3614047.stm)

Devon & Cornwall
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/3757859.stm)

Glasgow
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3490254.stm)

Lanarkshire
(http://scotlandtoday.scottishtv.co.u...3330&newsType=)

London
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3157214.stm)

Sheffield
(http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewAr...ticleID=806447)

Surrey
(http://www.surrey.police.uk/area_item.asp?itemid=4533)

Thames Valley
(http://cherwell.ospl.org/viewarticle...han%20Bai ley)

Wales
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2317407.stm)

Wilmslow
(http://www.thewilmslowexpress.co.uk/...cle_11820.html)

ATM Scam - Hardware
(http://www.madville.com/link.php?id=63045)

Todays ATM where crooks can get hard cash without ever being
challenged are tomorrows Chip & PIN compliant shops where they will be
able to buy goods up to the value of the card.

IMHO. Chips will stop counterfeit but ALL terminals (retail and cash
machine) must be chip compliant. PINs on the other hand shifts
liability for fraud from the retailer/bank directly on to the
cardholder.

Don't ask but tell your credit card issuer you want a Chip & Signature
Card. Please post your results. By the way I have two Chip &
Signature Cards, they work.

James
  #6 (permalink)  
Old July 4th 04, 03:19 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
David klyne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 166
Default Chip'n' pin, again.....



--
"Nigel Crompton" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 23:02:53 GMT, "Andrew Simpson"
wrote:


France have had chip & pin for many years and if you google chip & pin


Yep, thanks, knew all that, I should've been more specific, like,
"Will I be able to buy fuel at unattended pumps using my new chip and
pin card ?"

Nigel

I filled up with diesel at Auchen, Dunkerque yesterday and they had very
clear signs on their 24/24 pumps which stated that they will not work with
UK cards. Hopefully it won't be too long before we can use them.

David - Milton Keynes
www.caravantravels.co.uk
Details of our Caravan Travels in the UK and Europe with help and advice and
site reports


  #7 (permalink)  
Old July 4th 04, 09:41 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Leyland_Leopard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 225
Default Chip'n' pin, again.....

"David klyne" wrote in message
...


I filled up with diesel at Auchen, Dunkerque yesterday and they had very
clear signs on their 24/24 pumps which stated that they will not work with
UK cards. Hopefully it won't be too long before we can use them.

Mind you, they have been saying that for several years, now. I assumed, on
seeing similar signs on previous excursions into France, that the signs
referred to UK cards, as they didn't (at that time) have chips in them. eg
at Cite L'Europe, there are the pumps for European credit cards and the
(very slow moving) queues for English credit cards!


  #8 (permalink)  
Old August 23rd 04, 08:29 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Nigel Crompton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 91
Default Chip'n' pin, again.....

I'm back. Tried both chip 'n' pin at several different fuel outlets
without success. Interestingly, although several supermarches allowed
us to use pin instead of signing at their checkouts when we tried the
same card at the site's fuel outlet it wasn't accepted. Leads me to
believe that the pumps, or at least the pump card readers, will need
to be changed before we can buy fuel at them.


Cheers and Beers
  #9 (permalink)  
Old August 23rd 04, 08:29 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Nigel Crompton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 91
Default Chip'n' pin, again.....

I'm back. Tried both chip 'n' pin at several different fuel outlets
without success. Interestingly, although several supermarches allowed
us to use pin instead of signing at their checkouts when we tried the
same card at the site's fuel outlet it wasn't accepted. Leads me to
believe that the pumps, or at least the pump card readers, will need
to be changed before we can buy fuel at them.


Cheers and Beers
  #10 (permalink)  
Old August 24th 04, 06:11 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Dave Fawthrop
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,941
Default Chip'n' pin, again.....

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:29:51 +0100, Nigel Crompton nigel&crompton.org.uk
wrote:

| I'm back. Tried both chip 'n' pin at several different fuel outlets
| without success. Interestingly, although several supermarches allowed
| us to use pin instead of signing at their checkouts when we tried the
| same card at the site's fuel outlet it wasn't accepted. Leads me to
| believe that the pumps, or at least the pump card readers, will need
| to be changed before we can buy fuel at them.

The costs of installing Chip and Pin technology, to the retailer are high.
Many are waiting till the supermarkets are next refurbished to install it.
They have several months before the banks deadline expires, and then the
the banks only transfer the risk of fraud to the retailer.

--
Dave F
 



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