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UK Caravanning (uk.rec.caravanning) A forum for the discussion of caravanning undertaken by residents of the United Kingdom, whether in the UK or abroad. It encourages the interchange of views on the merits of models of caravan, makes of tow car, accessories, caravan sites, caravan clubs, and other related topics. The term caravan is to include trailer vans, motor caravans and trailer tents.

Vans ordered of the road for being overwieght by North Yorkshire Police.



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old July 10th 04, 02:19 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Dave Fawthrop
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,941
Default Vans ordered of the road for being overwieght by North Yorkshire Police.


From: Dave Fawthrop )

http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/...sp?news_id=229

Bank Holiday Caravan Safety Checks Results
10/05/2004 19:09:52
The results from the first series of Bank Holiday safety checks on caravans
are not good.

Central Area Road Policing Sgt Ian Butler said “The results are very poor
indeed and suggests that a worryingly large proportion of caravan owners
simply don’t care about their own or other people’s safety.”
........


As I mentioned earlier I wrote to Sgt Butler on this point, find both my
letter and his reply (OCRed) below:

He does not mention the kerbside weight of the towing vehicle which is IMO
more important than what he says.

Sorry about the delay, caused by a caravan holiday :-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
20/5/04

Sgt Ian Butler
Central Area Road Policing
North Yorkshire Police
Newby Wiske,
Northallerton DL7 9HA.

Dear Sir

I am subscribed to the usenet newsgroup uk.rec.caravanning where the
subject of the maximum weight of caravan which can be towed by a vehicle is
discussed regularly. As a group we have failed miserably to determine
how to reach this figure. The Caravan Club and Camping and Caravanning
Club recommend a caravan weight of not more than 85% of the kerbside weight
of the tow car. Some believe that the van weight should not be more than
100% of the kerbside weight of the tow car, but have failed to justify this
belief, after exhaustive trawling of the web for the English law on this
matter. Still others believe that the weight of the van should not exceed
the Maximum Train Weight given by the tow cars manufacturer. There are
also other opinions.

I note on http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/news-
newsflash.asp?news_id=229 that “Seven [caravans] were ordered off the
road because they were too heavy for the vehicles towing them.” You are
also quoted as saying “This simply isn’t good enough. Overweight caravans
can be dangerously difficult to control, ...”

Would you be so kind as to define what is the legal limit for the weight of
a caravan as compared with the weight of the towing vehicle so that I may
post it on this newsgroup. Will you also please quote whatever Law
and/or Regulation you use the determine this figure. The subscribers to
the newsgroup mentioned are an argumentative lot and will immediately check
anything you say.

I was towing in your area last weekend, and believe that my outfit is
legal,
but I would wish to be sure of this. I will also return at the end of
June.

I have started a thread Subject: Vans ordered of the road for being
overwieght by North Yorkshire Police. on this newsgroup which you may wish
to view or contribute to.

Yours sincerely

Dave Fawthrop

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mr. D Fawthrop 8 Cooper Grove Shelf Halifax HX37RF

7th June 2004

Dear Dave,

Thank you for your letter dated 20th May 2004 regarding Operation
Carriage which I organised on behalf of Central Area Road Policing
Department.

I will try and answer your questions in the order you have asked them.

All regulations regarding weights of towing and towed vehicles are
contained within the ROAD VEHICLES (CONSTRUCTION AND USE) REGULATIONS
1986 which fully explain every scenario possible, but basically the
following applies:-

All vehicles cannot impose on the road more than their gross vehicle
weight (GVW) which can be found on the vehicles manufacturers plate.

All towing vehicles together with the towed vehicle cannot impose on
the road more than the towing vehicles maximum train weight (MTW)
which can be found on the manufacturers plate on the towing vehicle.

All towed vehicles are also fitted with a manufacturers plate which
gives the maximum axle weight the vehicle can impose on the road as
well as a gross vehicle weight (CGW) the vehicle can impose on the
road which applies more to twin axle trailers.

You can now see that it is possible to have a huge variety of
offences. For example, somebody who uses a small towing vehicle with a
large towed vehicle the towed vehicle could be under weight but the
MGW would be exceeded. The opposite can also apply that the towing
vehicle is underweight but the towed vehicle has been over loaded or
badly loaded and the towed vehicles GVW is exceeded.

To complicate matters even more home made trailers are not plated and
become subject to different regulations dependant on whether they are
braked or unbraked and whether they were made before 01.01.86 or
after.

A further complication that people fail to consider is the weight the
towed vehicle puts on the towing vehicle via the tow ball. Your towing
vehicle could be weighed without its trailer and be underweight but as
soon as the towed vehicle is attached the weight of the towing vehicle
increases and becomes over weight.

The variations of offences are massive and I would need hours and
hours to explain them to you. If you wish to read the regulations
there is an excellent book called THE TRAFFIC OFFICER'S COMPANION
which can be purchased from any HMSO book shop or by phoning
01708718745. It is reasonably priced and we use it as our bible.

Any breach of these regulations can be prosecuted by either the police
or VOSA (formerly D.O.T.) by way of court, fixed penalty or
prohibition. My view and the purpose of the checks is to influence
road safety and to educate drivers. Only the most serious breaches of
regulations are prosecuted.

I hope that this clarifies matters for you and if I can be of further
assistance then please feel free to contact me.

Yours sincerely

Ian BUTLER Traffic Sergeant 975

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Ads
  #2 (permalink)  
Old July 10th 04, 05:12 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Tmax
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 87
Default Vans ordered of the road for being overwieght by North Yorkshire Police.


"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...

(snipped for Dave's sake)


Dave - some advice.

It's madness to post your address on Usenet! - delete that post now.


  #3 (permalink)  
Old July 10th 04, 05:26 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Dave Fawthrop
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,941
Default Vans ordered of the road for being overwieght by North Yorkshire Police.

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 18:12:45 +0100, "Tmax" wrote:

|
| "Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
| ...
|
| (snipped for Dave's sake)
|
|
| Dave - some advice.
|
| It's madness to post your address on Usenet! - delete that post now.

My *snail mail* address has been on Usenet for ?8? years without anything
untoward happening. :-)
IME you are being over cautious, but thanks for the thought.

Dave F

  #4 (permalink)  
Old July 10th 04, 06:27 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 338
Default Vans ordered of the road for being overwieght by North Yorkshire Police.

Read your message with interest; while on holiday 10 days ago and sitting in
the awning I noticed that the manufacturer's plate on my Bailey caravan had
faded so much that the writing is no longer legible; the caravan is now 30
months old.
I am going to write to Bailey about this but when I read your message and
its contents I realise that I am committing an offence every time I take the
caravan on the road as any one checking could not tell its weight etc..
I wonder how many caravans are like that?


"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...

From: Dave Fawthrop )

http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/...sp?news_id=229

Bank Holiday Caravan Safety Checks Results
10/05/2004 19:09:52
The results from the first series of Bank Holiday safety checks on

caravans
are not good.

snip


  #5 (permalink)  
Old July 10th 04, 06:55 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Dave Fawthrop
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,941
Default Vans ordered of the road for being overwieght by North Yorkshire Police.

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:27:20 +0100, "Stewart"
wrote:

| Read your message with interest; while on holiday 10 days ago and sitting in
| the awning I noticed that the manufacturer's plate on my Bailey caravan had
| faded so much that the writing is no longer legible; the caravan is now 30
| months old.
| I am going to write to Bailey about this but when I read your message and
| its contents I realise that I am committing an offence every time I take the
| caravan on the road as any one checking could not tell its weight etc..
| I wonder how many caravans are like that?
|

My 1998 Bailey is also unreadable :-(

Puts on Pillar of Society face.
"Sorry officer! what plate?"
Examines plate looks mystified
"Now that is interesting never noticed that".

They would not prosecute for a technical mistake.

Dave F
  #6 (permalink)  
Old July 10th 04, 10:35 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
bill lord
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 291
Default Vans ordered of the road for being overwieght by North Yorkshire Police.

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 15:19:31 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:

All vehicles cannot impose on the road more than their gross vehicle
weight (GVW) which can be found on the vehicles manufacturers plate.

All towing vehicles together with the towed vehicle cannot impose on
the road more than the towing vehicles maximum train weight (MTW)
which can be found on the manufacturers plate on the towing vehicle.

All towed vehicles are also fitted with a manufacturers plate which
gives the maximum axle weight the vehicle can impose on the road as
well as a gross vehicle weight (CGW) the vehicle can impose on the
road which applies more to twin axle trailers.


Very interesting Dave it would seem that the general advice given is
compatible with these principles apart from the general quoted
thought about the manufacturers max towing being used. Would you agree
that this suggests that as long as a caravan and car together do not
exceed the maximum train weight and that neither the car nor the
caravan exceed their max gross vehicle weights then the outfit is
legal, whether this is advisable or not. Mind you the comment about
the noseweight of the caravan being deducted from the cars max gross
weight was interesting.
So the police have defined the legal position and the clubs have
defined the advised position ( CCC advise max of 85% CC advise 85%
as a good aiming point but consider that up to 100% is acceptable ).
So somewhere in all this we have what people do.
I read your message with interest and am glad that we now have some
sort of defined solution.


(remove the spam to reply)
I don't suffer from stress..................I'm just a carrier
  #7 (permalink)  
Old July 11th 04, 06:50 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Steve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Vans ordered of the road for being overwieght by North Yorkshire Police.

Towing other things not caravans, a car trailer perhaps, or a horse box with
2 horses.


Steve


  #8 (permalink)  
Old July 12th 04, 12:53 AM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Peter Milnes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 191
Default Vans ordered of the road for being overwieght by North Yorkshire Police.


wrote in message
news
snipped

: PPS. Has anyone actually got a caravan that weighs 3,500 kg?
:
I think some of the Airstream vans are around this weight and the new fifth
wheel vans are quite heavy.

Cheers, Peter.

  #9 (permalink)  
Old July 12th 04, 06:51 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Tony Maris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 161
Default Vans ordered of the road for being overwieght by North Yorkshire Police.

Hello Stewart,

I think it arguable that you are committing an offence. Trailers (including
caravans) are categorised according to whether they are braked or unbraked,
and their Gross Weight.
A category 01 trailer is unbraked and does not exceed 750 Kgs gross weight.
An 02 is braked and does not exceed 3,500 Kgs (the category into which
caravans generally fall). An 03 trailer exceeds 3,500 Kgs but does not
exceed 10,000 Kgs, and an 04 trailer exceeds 10,000 Kgs.

It is an anomaly in the way that the law is written, that 01, 03, and 04
trailers need to show their Gross weight yet there is no requirement for an
02 trailer to do so. It is merely said that they SHOULD show the weight
(not MUST).

I have done roadside checks with Nottinghamshire Police and The Vehicle
Inspectorate, and the weights they would be most concerned about you
exceeding are the noseweight or 'S' value shown on the towbar, and any of
the weights shown on the vehicles VIN plate.

Regards

--
Tony M
Towbars & Trailers
Chesterfield
Specialists in Towing Equipment
NTTA Council Member
http://www.towitall.co.uk
QSA accredited for Towbars and Trailers



"Stewart" wrote in message
...
Read your message with interest; while on holiday 10 days ago and sitting

in
the awning I noticed that the manufacturer's plate on my Bailey caravan

had
faded so much that the writing is no longer legible; the caravan is now 30
months old.
I am going to write to Bailey about this but when I read your message and
its contents I realise that I am committing an offence every time I take

the
caravan on the road as any one checking could not tell its weight etc..
I wonder how many caravans are like that?


"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...

From: Dave Fawthrop )

http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/...sp?news_id=229

Bank Holiday Caravan Safety Checks Results
10/05/2004 19:09:52
The results from the first series of Bank Holiday safety checks on

caravans
are not good.

snip




 



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