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UK Caravanning (uk.rec.caravanning) A forum for the discussion of caravanning undertaken by residents of the United Kingdom, whether in the UK or abroad. It encourages the interchange of views on the merits of models of caravan, makes of tow car, accessories, caravan sites, caravan clubs, and other related topics. The term caravan is to include trailer vans, motor caravans and trailer tents.

General Towing Advice



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old August 11th 05, 08:30 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
St. George
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default General Towing Advice

Hi,

Am new to this NG and also caravaning.

Now retired and wife and I are seriously thinking of purchasing a 2 berth
tourer for holidays in the UK and, possibly at a later stage, the Continent.

We started looking and found a Herald Magnum 2000 420/2 in fantastic
condition and within our budget.
However we were told that our vehicle would be deemed legally insufficient
to tow this particular van.
Apparently our current car is only allowed to tow up to a maximum of 1200 Kg
laden weight.
We were thinking of upgrading our car at the same time but now have to
calculate tow value etc.

Could some kind person briefly explain the difference between Kerbweight and
Train weight.

Also some suggestions for sites to enable me to make the relevant
calculations. Car v. Tow

Would also appreciate Websites for Private sales of vans within the UK and
any geneeral advice.

Thank you in advance.

Happppppppppy Everythings,

Len and Val, W-s-M Summmmmmerset.



Ads
  #2 (permalink)  
Old August 11th 05, 09:15 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
David @ Home
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default General Towing Advice


"St. George" St. wrote in message
...
Hi,

Am new to this NG and also caravaning.

Now retired and wife and I are seriously thinking of purchasing a 2 berth
tourer for holidays in the UK and, possibly at a later stage, the

Continent.

We started looking and found a Herald Magnum 2000 420/2 in fantastic
condition and within our budget.
However we were told that our vehicle would be deemed legally insufficient
to tow this particular van.
Apparently our current car is only allowed to tow up to a maximum of 1200

Kg
laden weight.
We were thinking of upgrading our car at the same time but now have to
calculate tow value etc.

Could some kind person briefly explain the difference between Kerbweight

and
Train weight.

Also some suggestions for sites to enable me to make the relevant
calculations. Car v. Tow

Would also appreciate Websites for Private sales of vans within the UK and
any geneeral advice.

Thank you in advance.

Happppppppppy Everythings,

Len and Val, W-s-M Summmmmmerset.


Kerb weight is the weight of the car on its own, usually with a driver, half
a tank of fuel and all lubricants.

Train weight is the maximum that the car and any trailer/caravan can weigh
in combination.

In effect the more you put in the car, the less you can tow.

Since 1998 all cars must have the train weight marked on them, and most
manufacturers will also list in the handbook the maximum you can tow. This
is the law and must not be exceeded. The Caravan Club and the industry
recommend that as first time towers you do not tow more than 85% of the
kerbweight of the car (assuming a lower limit is not specified in the car
handbook), for experienced towers it is recommended that you do not exceed
100% of the kerbweight, subjuct to the same limitations above.

These are only recommendations and most normal family cars, Vectra, Mondeo,
407 etc will suggest that they can tow 1500kg plus on a kerbweight of around
1350kg depending on model.

All very confusing I know, but I hope this gives an insight.

Cheers

David


  #3 (permalink)  
Old August 11th 05, 09:15 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
David @ Home
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default General Towing Advice


"St. George" St. wrote in message
...
Hi,

Am new to this NG and also caravaning.

Now retired and wife and I are seriously thinking of purchasing a 2 berth
tourer for holidays in the UK and, possibly at a later stage, the

Continent.

We started looking and found a Herald Magnum 2000 420/2 in fantastic
condition and within our budget.
However we were told that our vehicle would be deemed legally insufficient
to tow this particular van.
Apparently our current car is only allowed to tow up to a maximum of 1200

Kg
laden weight.
We were thinking of upgrading our car at the same time but now have to
calculate tow value etc.

Could some kind person briefly explain the difference between Kerbweight

and
Train weight.

Also some suggestions for sites to enable me to make the relevant
calculations. Car v. Tow

Would also appreciate Websites for Private sales of vans within the UK and
any geneeral advice.

Thank you in advance.

Happppppppppy Everythings,

Len and Val, W-s-M Summmmmmerset.


Kerb weight is the weight of the car on its own, usually with a driver, half
a tank of fuel and all lubricants.

Train weight is the maximum that the car and any trailer/caravan can weigh
in combination.

In effect the more you put in the car, the less you can tow.

Since 1998 all cars must have the train weight marked on them, and most
manufacturers will also list in the handbook the maximum you can tow. This
is the law and must not be exceeded. The Caravan Club and the industry
recommend that as first time towers you do not tow more than 85% of the
kerbweight of the car (assuming a lower limit is not specified in the car
handbook), for experienced towers it is recommended that you do not exceed
100% of the kerbweight, subjuct to the same limitations above.

These are only recommendations and most normal family cars, Vectra, Mondeo,
407 etc will suggest that they can tow 1500kg plus on a kerbweight of around
1350kg depending on model.

All very confusing I know, but I hope this gives an insight.

Cheers

David


  #4 (permalink)  
Old August 11th 05, 09:49 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
St. George
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default General Towing Advice


"David @ Home" wrote in message
news

"St. George" St. wrote in message
...
Hi,

Am new to this NG and also caravaning.

Now retired and wife and I are seriously thinking of purchasing a 2 berth
tourer for holidays in the UK and, possibly at a later stage, the

Continent.

We started looking and found a Herald Magnum 2000 420/2 in fantastic
condition and within our budget.
However we were told that our vehicle would be deemed legally
insufficient
to tow this particular van.
Apparently our current car is only allowed to tow up to a maximum of 1200

Kg
laden weight.
We were thinking of upgrading our car at the same time but now have to
calculate tow value etc.

Could some kind person briefly explain the difference between Kerbweight

and
Train weight.

Also some suggestions for sites to enable me to make the relevant
calculations. Car v. Tow

Would also appreciate Websites for Private sales of vans within the UK
and
any geneeral advice.

Thank you in advance.

Happppppppppy Everythings,

Len and Val, W-s-M Summmmmmerset.


Kerb weight is the weight of the car on its own, usually with a driver,
half
a tank of fuel and all lubricants.

Train weight is the maximum that the car and any trailer/caravan can weigh
in combination.

In effect the more you put in the car, the less you can tow.

Since 1998 all cars must have the train weight marked on them, and most
manufacturers will also list in the handbook the maximum you can tow. This
is the law and must not be exceeded. The Caravan Club and the industry
recommend that as first time towers you do not tow more than 85% of the
kerbweight of the car (assuming a lower limit is not specified in the car
handbook), for experienced towers it is recommended that you do not exceed
100% of the kerbweight, subjuct to the same limitations above.

These are only recommendations and most normal family cars, Vectra,
Mondeo,
407 etc will suggest that they can tow 1500kg plus on a kerbweight of
around
1350kg depending on model.

All very confusing I know, but I hope this gives an insight.

Cheers

David




Many thanks David. Think I get the gist.

Since posting have done search on Google and see that Caravan Club do Outfit
Matching.
Also looked at DVLC site and got some useful gen.

Would really like to be able to access directly a Data Base for Vehicle
Kerbweight and Caravan Max Laden weight i.e. Train weight.
This would save a lot of equiring of various vehicles and vans.
Any thoughts ????

Also any suggestions for private van sales.
Would also like to access caravan layouts.

Once again Thank you.

Len


  #5 (permalink)  
Old August 11th 05, 09:49 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
St. George
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default General Towing Advice


"David @ Home" wrote in message
news

"St. George" St. wrote in message
...
Hi,

Am new to this NG and also caravaning.

Now retired and wife and I are seriously thinking of purchasing a 2 berth
tourer for holidays in the UK and, possibly at a later stage, the

Continent.

We started looking and found a Herald Magnum 2000 420/2 in fantastic
condition and within our budget.
However we were told that our vehicle would be deemed legally
insufficient
to tow this particular van.
Apparently our current car is only allowed to tow up to a maximum of 1200

Kg
laden weight.
We were thinking of upgrading our car at the same time but now have to
calculate tow value etc.

Could some kind person briefly explain the difference between Kerbweight

and
Train weight.

Also some suggestions for sites to enable me to make the relevant
calculations. Car v. Tow

Would also appreciate Websites for Private sales of vans within the UK
and
any geneeral advice.

Thank you in advance.

Happppppppppy Everythings,

Len and Val, W-s-M Summmmmmerset.


Kerb weight is the weight of the car on its own, usually with a driver,
half
a tank of fuel and all lubricants.

Train weight is the maximum that the car and any trailer/caravan can weigh
in combination.

In effect the more you put in the car, the less you can tow.

Since 1998 all cars must have the train weight marked on them, and most
manufacturers will also list in the handbook the maximum you can tow. This
is the law and must not be exceeded. The Caravan Club and the industry
recommend that as first time towers you do not tow more than 85% of the
kerbweight of the car (assuming a lower limit is not specified in the car
handbook), for experienced towers it is recommended that you do not exceed
100% of the kerbweight, subjuct to the same limitations above.

These are only recommendations and most normal family cars, Vectra,
Mondeo,
407 etc will suggest that they can tow 1500kg plus on a kerbweight of
around
1350kg depending on model.

All very confusing I know, but I hope this gives an insight.

Cheers

David




Many thanks David. Think I get the gist.

Since posting have done search on Google and see that Caravan Club do Outfit
Matching.
Also looked at DVLC site and got some useful gen.

Would really like to be able to access directly a Data Base for Vehicle
Kerbweight and Caravan Max Laden weight i.e. Train weight.
This would save a lot of equiring of various vehicles and vans.
Any thoughts ????

Also any suggestions for private van sales.
Would also like to access caravan layouts.

Once again Thank you.

Len


  #6 (permalink)  
Old August 11th 05, 10:44 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Hitch Lock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 692
Default General Towing Advice

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
St. George St. wrote:


Would really like to be able to access directly a Data Base for
Vehicle Kerbweight and Caravan Max Laden weight i.e. Train weight.
This would save a lot of equiring of various vehicles and vans.
Any thoughts ????

You appear to have misunderstood Train Weight a little. Train weight is the
combined weight of the loaded car *and* loaded caravan. Many car
manufacturers specify both a max permissible trailer weight and a max
permissible train weight - and it is illegal to exceed *either* of these. It
is also illegal for a trailer to exceed the max permissible weight stamped
on its own loading plate - sometimes not providing a very generous margin
for personal effects and equipment.

So first and foremost, you must be legal. And then, on top of that, there
are recommendations which are worth following even though they are not
legally enforceable. The first concerns car to trailer weight ratio. Even if
the car maker says you can tow more than this, it is a very good idea - from
the point of view of stability - to ensure that the all-up (fully laden)
weight of the trailer doesn't exceed 85% of the Kerb (unladen) weight of the
car. Then you need to make sure that your car has adequate power - and
torque - to be able achieve a reasonable level of performance without
getting in everybody's way and - in particular - to be able to restart if
you have to stop half-way up a hill. It is difficult to define a simple rule
for this - because a lot depends on the shape of the torque curve and the
gearing rather than just engine size and max power. As a very general rule,
I would suggest that you need at least 2 litres of engine for every tonne of
trailer weight.

There is a caravan weight database at
http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/vandata.htm but I don't know how good it
is.
--
Cheers,
Hitch Lock
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #7 (permalink)  
Old August 11th 05, 10:44 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
Hitch Lock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 692
Default General Towing Advice

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
St. George St. wrote:


Would really like to be able to access directly a Data Base for
Vehicle Kerbweight and Caravan Max Laden weight i.e. Train weight.
This would save a lot of equiring of various vehicles and vans.
Any thoughts ????

You appear to have misunderstood Train Weight a little. Train weight is the
combined weight of the loaded car *and* loaded caravan. Many car
manufacturers specify both a max permissible trailer weight and a max
permissible train weight - and it is illegal to exceed *either* of these. It
is also illegal for a trailer to exceed the max permissible weight stamped
on its own loading plate - sometimes not providing a very generous margin
for personal effects and equipment.

So first and foremost, you must be legal. And then, on top of that, there
are recommendations which are worth following even though they are not
legally enforceable. The first concerns car to trailer weight ratio. Even if
the car maker says you can tow more than this, it is a very good idea - from
the point of view of stability - to ensure that the all-up (fully laden)
weight of the trailer doesn't exceed 85% of the Kerb (unladen) weight of the
car. Then you need to make sure that your car has adequate power - and
torque - to be able achieve a reasonable level of performance without
getting in everybody's way and - in particular - to be able to restart if
you have to stop half-way up a hill. It is difficult to define a simple rule
for this - because a lot depends on the shape of the torque curve and the
gearing rather than just engine size and max power. As a very general rule,
I would suggest that you need at least 2 litres of engine for every tonne of
trailer weight.

There is a caravan weight database at
http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/vandata.htm but I don't know how good it
is.
--
Cheers,
Hitch Lock
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.


  #8 (permalink)  
Old August 11th 05, 11:16 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
David @ Home
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default General Towing Advice


Many thanks David. Think I get the gist.

Since posting have done search on Google and see that Caravan Club do

Outfit
Matching.
Also looked at DVLC site and got some useful gen.

Would really like to be able to access directly a Data Base for Vehicle
Kerbweight and Caravan Max Laden weight i.e. Train weight.
This would save a lot of equiring of various vehicles and vans.
Any thoughts ????

Also any suggestions for private van sales.
Would also like to access caravan layouts.

Once again Thank you.

Len

Hi Len


I don't think such a database exists. Car manufacturers have difficulty
getting the information into their handbooks in a recognisable form. Renault
are particularly weird, and Ford rely on the sticker on the car, which may
be in one of two places, the only information in the handbook is where to
look for the stickers.

Each caravan manufacturer will have the caravan maximium laden weight, or
Maximum Technical Permitted Laden Mass as its now called on their websites
for current models. Older models will be a bit more difficult. One of the
problems is that the weights do not remain the same, even for a given model
year. Layouts on the otherhand tend to remain similar over a number of
years, albeit with some changes. For instance a Swift Challenger 490 has
been an end bedroom 5 berth since the dinosaurs died and the earth cooled.
It may be a foot longer now than it was, and 3 inches wider than last year,
but the layout is basically the same.

Cheers

David


  #9 (permalink)  
Old August 11th 05, 11:16 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
David @ Home
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default General Towing Advice


Many thanks David. Think I get the gist.

Since posting have done search on Google and see that Caravan Club do

Outfit
Matching.
Also looked at DVLC site and got some useful gen.

Would really like to be able to access directly a Data Base for Vehicle
Kerbweight and Caravan Max Laden weight i.e. Train weight.
This would save a lot of equiring of various vehicles and vans.
Any thoughts ????

Also any suggestions for private van sales.
Would also like to access caravan layouts.

Once again Thank you.

Len

Hi Len


I don't think such a database exists. Car manufacturers have difficulty
getting the information into their handbooks in a recognisable form. Renault
are particularly weird, and Ford rely on the sticker on the car, which may
be in one of two places, the only information in the handbook is where to
look for the stickers.

Each caravan manufacturer will have the caravan maximium laden weight, or
Maximum Technical Permitted Laden Mass as its now called on their websites
for current models. Older models will be a bit more difficult. One of the
problems is that the weights do not remain the same, even for a given model
year. Layouts on the otherhand tend to remain similar over a number of
years, albeit with some changes. For instance a Swift Challenger 490 has
been an end bedroom 5 berth since the dinosaurs died and the earth cooled.
It may be a foot longer now than it was, and 3 inches wider than last year,
but the layout is basically the same.

Cheers

David


  #10 (permalink)  
Old August 11th 05, 11:22 PM posted to uk.rec.caravanning
David @ Home
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default General Towing Advice

Many thanks David. Think I get the gist.

Since posting have done search on Google and see that Caravan Club do

Outfit
Matching.
Also looked at DVLC site and got some useful gen.

Would really like to be able to access directly a Data Base for Vehicle
Kerbweight and Caravan Max Laden weight i.e. Train weight.
This would save a lot of equiring of various vehicles and vans.
Any thoughts ????

Also any suggestions for private van sales.
Would also like to access caravan layouts.

Once again Thank you.

Len


Sorry Len, missed the bit about private sales in the post.

Be very very careful buying privately. There are some bargains to be had,
but there are some horror stories out there too. Be looking for a full
service history with service sheets appropriately ticked, and even then arm
yourself with a damp meter and if you agree a sale make sure the seller
demonstrates all the equipment is working, by actually showing you it
working before parting with the cash.

Cheers

David


 



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