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Right of way question.



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old September 5th 05, 06:33 PM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.caravanning
Martin McGowan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 136
Default Right of way question.

Cessna172 wrote:
Walt Davidson wrote in

snip
In Milton Keynes where I live there are many, many roundabouts and
some are blind, ie.e a motorcycle travelling at some speed suddently
appears so you have to be anticipating stopping at the very last
minute, irritating to others behind you I know but they have the
right of way if they are on the roundabout first and they are coming
from the right. Liz

And your point being...?


If you cannot see the point of her posting, you must be very thick
indeed.



The point of her posting appears to be the following.

1.. I don't know how to use roundabouts properly.


I think the point of the posting is that some roundabouts are
constructed in such a way as you cannot see traffic approaching the
roundabout from the road directly opposite you due to shrubbery and
mounds on the central island, such that the only knowledge you get of
oncoming traffic is when it appears around the island. you are able to
see traffic approaching the island from your left, which will then
disappear behind the central obstruction and may or may not reappear in
your vision, you can see traffic approaching from your right. It does
leave the driver vulnerable as the rules state you must give way to
traffic already on the roundabout.
Martin McGowan
Ads
  #2 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 08:47 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.caravanning
Cessna172
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Right of way question.

Martin McGowan wrote in news:cc0Te.2672
:

Cessna172 wrote:
Walt Davidson wrote in

snip
In Milton Keynes where I live there are many, many roundabouts and
some are blind, ie.e a motorcycle travelling at some speed suddently
appears so you have to be anticipating stopping at the very last
minute, irritating to others behind you I know but they have the
right of way if they are on the roundabout first and they are coming
from the right. Liz

And your point being...?

If you cannot see the point of her posting, you must be very thick
indeed.



The point of her posting appears to be the following.

1.. I don't know how to use roundabouts properly.


I think the point of the posting is that some roundabouts are
constructed in such a way as you cannot see traffic approaching the
roundabout from the road directly opposite you due to shrubbery and
mounds on the central island, such that the only knowledge you get of
oncoming traffic is when it appears around the island. you are able to
see traffic approaching the island from your left, which will then
disappear behind the central obstruction and may or may not reappear in
your vision, you can see traffic approaching from your right. It does
leave the driver vulnerable as the rules state you must give way to
traffic already on the roundabout.
Martin McGowan


It is quite clear she doesn't know how to use roundabouts, and it also
appears you MAY not know how to use them either.

Liz initially said vehicles would "Suddenly" appear, requiring
anticipation to stop at the last minute. This is actually the opposite to
what she should be doing - she should be planning to stop, but anticipate
going if the roundabout is clear!

Think about it. If you approach a roundabout with the mindset of "go",
this will probably lead to a fast approach and heavy braking if a vehicle
appears. However, if you plan to stop, this will lead to smoother braking
on the approach. The decision to go will only be made if the roundabout
is clear when you get there.

A lot of drivers do not enter a roundabout if another vehicle is to their
right, even if they have the time to cross without causing the other
driver to slow. This is quite ridiculous, wasting time and roadspace.

--
Cessna172
  #3 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 08:47 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.caravanning
Cessna172
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Right of way question.

Martin McGowan wrote in news:cc0Te.2672
:

Cessna172 wrote:
Walt Davidson wrote in

snip
In Milton Keynes where I live there are many, many roundabouts and
some are blind, ie.e a motorcycle travelling at some speed suddently
appears so you have to be anticipating stopping at the very last
minute, irritating to others behind you I know but they have the
right of way if they are on the roundabout first and they are coming
from the right. Liz

And your point being...?

If you cannot see the point of her posting, you must be very thick
indeed.



The point of her posting appears to be the following.

1.. I don't know how to use roundabouts properly.


I think the point of the posting is that some roundabouts are
constructed in such a way as you cannot see traffic approaching the
roundabout from the road directly opposite you due to shrubbery and
mounds on the central island, such that the only knowledge you get of
oncoming traffic is when it appears around the island. you are able to
see traffic approaching the island from your left, which will then
disappear behind the central obstruction and may or may not reappear in
your vision, you can see traffic approaching from your right. It does
leave the driver vulnerable as the rules state you must give way to
traffic already on the roundabout.
Martin McGowan


It is quite clear she doesn't know how to use roundabouts, and it also
appears you MAY not know how to use them either.

Liz initially said vehicles would "Suddenly" appear, requiring
anticipation to stop at the last minute. This is actually the opposite to
what she should be doing - she should be planning to stop, but anticipate
going if the roundabout is clear!

Think about it. If you approach a roundabout with the mindset of "go",
this will probably lead to a fast approach and heavy braking if a vehicle
appears. However, if you plan to stop, this will lead to smoother braking
on the approach. The decision to go will only be made if the roundabout
is clear when you get there.

A lot of drivers do not enter a roundabout if another vehicle is to their
right, even if they have the time to cross without causing the other
driver to slow. This is quite ridiculous, wasting time and roadspace.

--
Cessna172
  #4 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 10:12 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.caravanning
Alex Heney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 546
Default Right of way question.

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:47:16 +0100, Cessna172
wrote:

Martin McGowan wrote in news:cc0Te.2672
:

snip
It is quite clear she doesn't know how to use roundabouts, and it also
appears you MAY not know how to use them either.

Liz initially said vehicles would "Suddenly" appear, requiring
anticipation to stop at the last minute. This is actually the opposite to
what she should be doing - she should be planning to stop, but anticipate
going if the roundabout is clear!


Which of course, rathhe5hr than being the "opposite", is *exactly* the
same meaning as what she said, just phrased slightly differently.

The ONLY significant point in either your version or hers, is that you
must be prepared to stop, right up to the point at which you enter the
roundabout.

Think about it. If you approach a roundabout with the mindset of "go",
this will probably lead to a fast approach and heavy braking if a vehicle
appears. However, if you plan to stop, this will lead to smoother braking
on the approach. The decision to go will only be made if the roundabout
is clear when you get there.


Rubbish.

I approach most roundabouts locally with the expectation that I will
be able to go, but I *always* approach slowly enough to be able to
stop *comfortably* if needed.


A lot of drivers do not enter a roundabout if another vehicle is to their
right, even if they have the time to cross without causing the other
driver to slow. This is quite ridiculous, wasting time and roadspace.


Agreed.

But it is a judgment call, and better to err that way than the
reverse.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Windows: XT emulator for an AT.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom
  #5 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 10:12 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.caravanning
Alex Heney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 546
Default Right of way question.

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:47:16 +0100, Cessna172
wrote:

Martin McGowan wrote in news:cc0Te.2672
:

snip
It is quite clear she doesn't know how to use roundabouts, and it also
appears you MAY not know how to use them either.

Liz initially said vehicles would "Suddenly" appear, requiring
anticipation to stop at the last minute. This is actually the opposite to
what she should be doing - she should be planning to stop, but anticipate
going if the roundabout is clear!


Which of course, rathhe5hr than being the "opposite", is *exactly* the
same meaning as what she said, just phrased slightly differently.

The ONLY significant point in either your version or hers, is that you
must be prepared to stop, right up to the point at which you enter the
roundabout.

Think about it. If you approach a roundabout with the mindset of "go",
this will probably lead to a fast approach and heavy braking if a vehicle
appears. However, if you plan to stop, this will lead to smoother braking
on the approach. The decision to go will only be made if the roundabout
is clear when you get there.


Rubbish.

I approach most roundabouts locally with the expectation that I will
be able to go, but I *always* approach slowly enough to be able to
stop *comfortably* if needed.


A lot of drivers do not enter a roundabout if another vehicle is to their
right, even if they have the time to cross without causing the other
driver to slow. This is quite ridiculous, wasting time and roadspace.


Agreed.

But it is a judgment call, and better to err that way than the
reverse.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Windows: XT emulator for an AT.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom
  #6 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 10:32 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.caravanning
Mark Foster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Right of way question.

In article ,
Alex Heney wrote:

Think about it. If you approach a roundabout with the mindset of "go",
this will probably lead to a fast approach and heavy braking if a vehicle
appears. However, if you plan to stop, this will lead to smoother braking
on the approach. The decision to go will only be made if the roundabout
is clear when you get there.


Rubbish.

I approach most roundabouts locally with the expectation that I will
be able to go, but I *always* approach slowly enough to be able to
stop *comfortably* if needed.


Prepare to stop, Plan to go.

Your expectation should be that you will have to stop but your planning
should be that you will go *IF* the conditions allow. That descision
CANNOT be made until you have an absolute view into the roundabout and
until you have that view your preparation MUST be to stop. Once you have
that absolute view, THEN *IF* conditions allow, you can put into effect
the "go" that you have been planning.

Best piece of advice (driving) that I have ever been given...

"The secret is to know what you're going to do when you get there".

--
Mark Foster, Brighton, Sussex, UK
E-mail:
PGP Fingerprint: 3342 C02C 7BE8 3FE4 AAC5 8BB2 03B7 9263 DDF2 04C1
--------------------------------------------------
"There are no such useless words as, 'I didn't have a chance.'"
[Driving, HMSO]
  #7 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 10:32 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.caravanning
Mark Foster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Right of way question.

In article ,
Alex Heney wrote:

Think about it. If you approach a roundabout with the mindset of "go",
this will probably lead to a fast approach and heavy braking if a vehicle
appears. However, if you plan to stop, this will lead to smoother braking
on the approach. The decision to go will only be made if the roundabout
is clear when you get there.


Rubbish.

I approach most roundabouts locally with the expectation that I will
be able to go, but I *always* approach slowly enough to be able to
stop *comfortably* if needed.


Prepare to stop, Plan to go.

Your expectation should be that you will have to stop but your planning
should be that you will go *IF* the conditions allow. That descision
CANNOT be made until you have an absolute view into the roundabout and
until you have that view your preparation MUST be to stop. Once you have
that absolute view, THEN *IF* conditions allow, you can put into effect
the "go" that you have been planning.

Best piece of advice (driving) that I have ever been given...

"The secret is to know what you're going to do when you get there".

--
Mark Foster, Brighton, Sussex, UK
E-mail:
PGP Fingerprint: 3342 C02C 7BE8 3FE4 AAC5 8BB2 03B7 9263 DDF2 04C1
--------------------------------------------------
"There are no such useless words as, 'I didn't have a chance.'"
[Driving, HMSO]
  #8 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 11:54 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.caravanning
Cessna172
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Right of way question.

Alex Heney wrote in
:

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:47:16 +0100, Cessna172
wrote:

Martin McGowan wrote in news:cc0Te.2672
:

snip
It is quite clear she doesn't know how to use roundabouts, and it also
appears you MAY not know how to use them either.

Liz initially said vehicles would "Suddenly" appear, requiring
anticipation to stop at the last minute. This is actually the opposite
to what she should be doing - she should be planning to stop, but
anticipate going if the roundabout is clear!


Which of course, rathhe5hr than being the "opposite", is *exactly* the
same meaning as what she said, just phrased slightly differently.


Er, no, its the opposite. She is planning to go, stopping if a vehicle
appears. I am saying plan to stop, only going if its clear.

If you can't see that is opposite, then I dispair.

The ONLY significant point in either your version or hers, is that you
must be prepared to stop, right up to the point at which you enter the
roundabout.


Er, no. She is preparing to go, stopping if roundabout is blocked. I
prepare to stop, going if the roundabout is clear.

Think about it. If you approach a roundabout with the mindset of "go",
this will probably lead to a fast approach and heavy braking if a
vehicle appears. However, if you plan to stop, this will lead to
smoother braking on the approach. The decision to go will only be made
if the roundabout is clear when you get there.


Rubbish.


No it isn't. I challenge you to observe any roundabout for a period of
time. You will see lots of vehicles hitting the brakes as they get to the
roundabout, when they realise they have to stop.

I approach most roundabouts locally with the expectation that I will
be able to go, but I *always* approach slowly enough to be able to
stop *comfortably* if needed.


Then your mindset is wrong. You should be planning to stop everytime,
only going if its clear.

A lot of drivers do not enter a roundabout if another vehicle is to
their right, even if they have the time to cross without causing the
other driver to slow. This is quite ridiculous, wasting time and
roadspace.


Agreed.

But it is a judgment call, and better to err that way than the
reverse.


There is no need to err. Plan to stop at the roundabout, observing on the
approach. If its clear, go. If not continue to a stop.

The mindset of plan to go, leads to limited time to observe and decide.



--
Cessna172
  #9 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 11:54 AM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.caravanning
Cessna172
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Right of way question.

Alex Heney wrote in
:

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:47:16 +0100, Cessna172
wrote:

Martin McGowan wrote in news:cc0Te.2672
:

snip
It is quite clear she doesn't know how to use roundabouts, and it also
appears you MAY not know how to use them either.

Liz initially said vehicles would "Suddenly" appear, requiring
anticipation to stop at the last minute. This is actually the opposite
to what she should be doing - she should be planning to stop, but
anticipate going if the roundabout is clear!


Which of course, rathhe5hr than being the "opposite", is *exactly* the
same meaning as what she said, just phrased slightly differently.


Er, no, its the opposite. She is planning to go, stopping if a vehicle
appears. I am saying plan to stop, only going if its clear.

If you can't see that is opposite, then I dispair.

The ONLY significant point in either your version or hers, is that you
must be prepared to stop, right up to the point at which you enter the
roundabout.


Er, no. She is preparing to go, stopping if roundabout is blocked. I
prepare to stop, going if the roundabout is clear.

Think about it. If you approach a roundabout with the mindset of "go",
this will probably lead to a fast approach and heavy braking if a
vehicle appears. However, if you plan to stop, this will lead to
smoother braking on the approach. The decision to go will only be made
if the roundabout is clear when you get there.


Rubbish.


No it isn't. I challenge you to observe any roundabout for a period of
time. You will see lots of vehicles hitting the brakes as they get to the
roundabout, when they realise they have to stop.

I approach most roundabouts locally with the expectation that I will
be able to go, but I *always* approach slowly enough to be able to
stop *comfortably* if needed.


Then your mindset is wrong. You should be planning to stop everytime,
only going if its clear.

A lot of drivers do not enter a roundabout if another vehicle is to
their right, even if they have the time to cross without causing the
other driver to slow. This is quite ridiculous, wasting time and
roadspace.


Agreed.

But it is a judgment call, and better to err that way than the
reverse.


There is no need to err. Plan to stop at the roundabout, observing on the
approach. If its clear, go. If not continue to a stop.

The mindset of plan to go, leads to limited time to observe and decide.



--
Cessna172
  #10 (permalink)  
Old September 6th 05, 02:32 PM posted to uk.rec.driving,uk.rec.caravanning
Alex Heney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 546
Default Right of way question.

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 12:54:08 +0100, Cessna172
wrote:

Alex Heney wrote in
:

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:47:16 +0100, Cessna172
wrote:

Martin McGowan wrote in news:cc0Te.2672
:

snip
It is quite clear she doesn't know how to use roundabouts, and it also
appears you MAY not know how to use them either.

Liz initially said vehicles would "Suddenly" appear, requiring
anticipation to stop at the last minute. This is actually the opposite
to what she should be doing - she should be planning to stop, but
anticipate going if the roundabout is clear!


Which of course, rathhe5hr than being the "opposite", is *exactly* the
same meaning as what she said, just phrased slightly differently.


Er, no, its the opposite. She is planning to go, stopping if a vehicle
appears. I am saying plan to stop, only going if its clear.

If you can't see that is opposite, then I dispair.


I cannot believe that anybody could be stupid enough to think it is
the opposite.

You are BOTH planning to stop if there is any need to do so.

You are BOTH planning to go if there is no need to stop.

There is a slightly different mindset, but the outcome is IDENTICAL.

If her approach were the OPPOSITE of yours, then she would be planning
to go only if that would put her into the path of another vehicle on
the roundabout. She would be waiting until one appeared, then driving
out in front of it.


The ONLY significant point in either your version or hers, is that you
must be prepared to stop, right up to the point at which you enter the
roundabout.


Er, no. She is preparing to go, stopping if roundabout is blocked. I
prepare to stop, going if the roundabout is clear.


And the difference, other than mindset is?

Oh yes, nothing at all. So they must be opposites :-)


Think about it. If you approach a roundabout with the mindset of "go",
this will probably lead to a fast approach and heavy braking if a
vehicle appears. However, if you plan to stop, this will lead to
smoother braking on the approach. The decision to go will only be made
if the roundabout is clear when you get there.


Rubbish.


No it isn't. I challenge you to observe any roundabout for a period of
time. You will see lots of vehicles hitting the brakes as they get to the
roundabout, when they realise they have to stop.


And?

That means those people are driving badly. No more, and no less.


I approach most roundabouts locally with the expectation that I will
be able to go, but I *always* approach slowly enough to be able to
stop *comfortably* if needed.


Then your mindset is wrong. You should be planning to stop everytime,
only going if its clear.


No it isn't.

I am planning to be able to stop comfortably every time. That is ALL
that is necessary.


A lot of drivers do not enter a roundabout if another vehicle is to
their right, even if they have the time to cross without causing the
other driver to slow. This is quite ridiculous, wasting time and
roadspace.


Agreed.

But it is a judgment call, and better to err that way than the
reverse.


There is no need to err.


In which case, there is no need to talk about mindsets.

Sorry, I didn't realise I was talking to a Robot.

Plan to stop at the roundabout, observing on the
approach. If its clear, go. If not continue to a stop.


OK.

In which case, you are the type of driver that *will* have seriously
irritated queues behind you.

Most people do not wait until it is completely clear. they wait until
there is sufficient gap for them to pull out without causing any other
vehicle to need to slow down.

But unlike your situation of waiting until completely clear, that is a
judgment call. Being human, mistakes *do* happen.

If you are going to make a mistake, it is better to wait for a longer
gap than strictly necessary than to try and pull out into too small a
gap.


The mindset of plan to go, leads to limited time to observe and decide.


And the mindset of planning to stop gives you NO more time.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
What do batteries run on?
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom
 



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